.30m1

[edwin41]

hello
im getting interested in getting me one of those .30m1 carbines .
the rifle would be used in 100 yards matches .
would a rifle like this perform with paperpatched bullets ?
i patch the 6.5x55 mm bullet , but its a boldaction rifle , i have no experience with a semiauto.

like to hear from the more experienced patchers...

[pdawg_shooter]

I have patched for the M1, M14 and a FN_FAL. All worked fine.

[Haggway]

On the semi auto do you patch like the lever actions? Paper at or just below the case mouth?

[pdawg_shooter]

I run the patch forward just past the start of the ogive. It is what works for me.

[edwin41]

thanks pdawg.. so now i know it can be done.
this evening i went to the range and shot a club rifle . 30 m1 with factory ammo..
build in 1944 and abused a lot , but i got to manage most of the rounds in the black circle.
made arrangement that for the next match in februari i can take this rifle with me.
great thing about these carbines that they fall in a class of its own , they have to be original and no gloves , special jackets etc are allowed in this class so for me its the most fair match of all...
this said... im starting a search for my own carbine now...

[pdawg_shooter]

thanks pdawg.. so now i know it can be done.
this evening i went to the range and shot a club rifle . 30 m1 with factory ammo..
build in 1944 and abused a lot , but i got to manage most of the rounds in the black circle.
made arrangement that for the next match in februari i can take this rifle with me.
great thing about these carbines that they fall in a class of its own , they have to be original and no gloves , special jackets etc are allowed in this class so for me its the most fair match of all...
this said... im starting a search for my own carbine now...

Yep, seems like most target shooting is won by he (or she) who has the most money to spend.

[edwin41]

exactly pwdag, you know wat i mean.
i want to go with my rifle and the ammo for it and see how far i can get.
i do take a spottingscope with me , but thats it.

since i paperpatch my (rifle) bullets i dont wanna go back to j word... its becoming one of my principals now.

[edwin41]

i think i just bought me a winchester . 30m1 carbine.
bought it from a foto , so if the rifle is as good as it looks on these fotoos its just a matter of paperwork.

now , i wanna paperpatch for this rifle , its a nice hobby right ?
took a look at the lyman site and found there are two options , a gaschecked design 115 gr no 311359 ,
or a flatbase 130 gr no 311410 , this last one seems to be a noseriding bullet...and this works great in my 6.5x55.
it seems to me that the 130 gr would be the better design , but the 115 gr would be far easier to patch.
what do you guys think of these options ?

[Nobade]

They both work fine. I hollow pointed my 311410 and it makes a great varmint boolit cast from pure lead and paper patched. Any more I mostly use the Ranch Dog 32-20 boolit for PPing in the carbine. It looks a lot like the #3118 Lyman/ideal design but tumble lubed.

[303Guy]

So just how well does paper patching work in the carbine? What loads do y'all use? Would Lil'Gun be a suitable powder for it with PP (thinking gas port pressure)? I don't have one and never will but it's an interesting little gun to me.

[pdawg_shooter]

Use the same loads that you use for jacketed of the same weight. May have to up the powder charge a bit to get the same pressure.

[edwin41]

i closed the deal on the rifle , and expect it to be here next weekend.
ive done some research on this particular .30m1 , its a winchester build rifle from the first run , so estimated at 1942-43.
the barrel is stamped with the AI mark and 63.
AI is a dutch compagnie , its full name is "artillerie inrichtingen hembrug " , so the translation would be artillary devices located at hembrug , holland. , the 63 mark would mean that the rifle is overhauled in 1963.
so ,its a very interesting rifle to me because i live right next to the famous "hells highway", in fact , the 101 airborne division landed some 20 miles from my home, and in my town and towns on the route are the memorials to never forget.
when the americans left , they left behind many .30m1 carbines for the dutch to establish a policeforce to maintain the peace.
these carbines served a long time in our police and military police units , and they were overhauled at some point by AI.
i believe the were in service till about the eightys or so .

for me owning and shooting one of these rifles , and knowing how they came here , and more important ...WHY they came here,
is showing some respect .

[Nobade]

So just how well does paper patching work in the carbine? What loads do y'all use? Would Lil'Gun be a suitable powder for it with PP (thinking gas port pressure)? I don't have one and never will but it's an interesting little gun to me.

Well, it's designed to use Carbine Ball powder which is pretty much identical to Accurate #9. So anything in that range seems to work well. H110/296, Lil' Gun, AA#9, IMR4227,VV N110, and I would assume some of the newer ones as well. I have been using 296 since I have a bunch of it, and with PP boolits the load is very simple. Figure out where the boolit needs to sit in order to lightly engage the rifling. Fill the case up the base of the boolit. That's it, works great for me. With the #311410 it's about 14 grains, IIRC.

[Ten X]

Figure out where the boolit needs to sit in order to lightly engage the rifling.

I think the magazine would limit how far out you would seat the boolit. Maybe a modified magazine with a single shot follower like used in an AR for slow fire stages but for the rapid fire stages you would need to load from the magazine.

[Nobade]

I think the magazine would limit how far out you would seat the boolit. Maybe a modified magazine with a single shot follower like used in an AR for slow fire stages but for the rapid fire stages you would need to load from the magazine.

Yep, if they end up too long you'll have to single load them since paper patch doesn't shoot for beans if the patch isn't touching the lands.

[edwin41]

this evening i tried out the carbine , it really is in an exellent shape, and it groups very well with factory ammo.
i went ahead and ordered me a lyman mould for it , the 130 gr flatbasebullet.
when this comes in i wanna try to shoot it without a patch fist , to see how much it will lead with my soft alloy , because my alloy would be in the 10 bhn hardness range , and a look in my reloading manual tells me that a powder like imr 4227 at 10.6 gr would give me a velocity of 1366 fps and more important , a pressure of 24600 cup , so both should be in the range of my alloy and bulletlube , wich is a beeswax/petroleumjelly 50/50 mix.
the reason i want to try this is that i took some measurements from my barrel.
it measures a groove diameter of 0.305 " and a bore diameter of 0.299 " , so the lands are pretty thin.
if i would size down the bullet to lets say 0.30" , then paperpatch it, and then i have to final size them at .308.
it would leave little room for the paper i believe , but then again , lyman moulds usually come in a little smaller , so i might be okee...
to be continued...