My go to powder in 357 Mag, 44 Mag, 32 Mag, 22 Hornet 357 SuperMag (all with cast) and good for 40 shot matches in IHMSA. I have not experienced, or at least noticed any drop off in accuaracy as the pistols heat up. I have however now noted this as an excuse for misses which I hadn't as yet used!Originally Posted by Southern Shooter
I am just in the early stages of also trialling ADI2205 (H4227) in my 15" .223 pistol with 55gr boolits. So far looking promising. Peter
Not an excuse with the .44. What you will see is shots will hit lower and lower so you need to add clicks. When I got to the last ram I was 16 clicks over normal and still hit 50 meters short.
I went to 296 and won Ohio state with 79 out of 80 with my SBH, missed the last ram from being burned out! After running 20 turkeys and 19 rams, my mind did head games on me.
I shot many 40's with 296 while those that used either 4227 cussed.
Other calibers did not do that and I shot a 39 with a Ruger .357 max using 4227 WITHOUT SIGHT SETTINGS on my new gun.
Something about the .44 even though I shot very small groups at 200 meters sighting the gun in but it did not get hot.
Even reducing the load in the .44 gave me flat primers. Most guys used 25 gr with a 240 gr and I went down to 21.5 with flat primers.
I actually looked at my gun several times to see what broke!
I was shooting at a cardboard chicken at 200 meters with a pistol, took the last 2 shots with my .44 using 296 and this is what I got.
I've been using it for .30 Carbine for 40 years and it works great.. Don't think it would do well in a 2" pistol, though..
I haven't put together a bad load using IMR 4227. use it in the m1 carbine, 32-20, & .357 rifle loads. hopefully will soon use it in 30-30 cast loads. was on the line once with hodgdon rep, & if i'm remembering correctly, h4227 are close enough to be interchangeable BUT PLEASE VERIFY THIS THRU HODGDON or maybe somebody else will chime in.
I think it is good powder for heavy bullet/boolit 357 mag loads, 170 to 195 gr for me.
Charter Member #148
For me: .218 Bee, .44 mag., .454 casull, also reduced (breach seated) loads in the 32/40 and 25/20 single shot.
God bless you! For me it is excellent in heavy cast loads in 357 mag
Charter Member #148
I t seems to me that there is a possibility of Funny things happening with 4227 in large cases, be it with higher pressure loads or 'reduced' loads. I found it necessary to use a semi-bulk filler to stabilize pressure (call that getting consistent primer flattening, muzzle blast, and velocity). I've heard a few reports of excess pressure symptoms from light loads and I know that insufficient pressure leaves lots of partially burned granules. I'm going to suggest for safety sake not to use it in rifle cases without a bulk filler and maybe not even then. Dacron (polyester fibre) is not a bulk filler. It is a powder positioner only - a good one at that. It is better to err on the side of caution.
Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)
''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''
303; I don't know if I agree with that, hell most of em have all their fingers and both eyes, who needs all that? life goes on
Charter Member #148
True! But I'd like 'em all to stay that way - with both eyes and all their fingers and most imortantly, with all their guns!
I stopped using 4227 after you good folks warned me, for which I thank you. That's when I started really looking into it. Mind you, if I recall, I was getting a little worried about my observations with 4227 and actually posed a question on the safety of 4227 under cirtain conditions. Like I said -it is better to err on the side of caution! I'm only suggesting that things could go funny, not that they will. Just be carefull with the stuff.
Just because I've used it safely and others have used it safely does not mean the next persons conditions will also be safe. Conditions are never quite the same and it's worst case scenario we need to be thinking of.
Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)
''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''
303:I agree with what you said completely. I do believe this this powder is the odd man out, so far as I've found, but then what do I know, I don't spend that much time on the internet.True! But I'd like 'em all to stay that way - with both eyes and all their fingers and most imortantly, with all their guns!
I stopped using 4227 after you good folks warned me, for which I thank you. That's when I started really looking into it. Mind you, if I recall, I was getting a little worried about my observations with 4227 and actually posed a question on the safety of 4227 under cirtain conditions. Like I said -it is better to err on the side of caution! I'm only suggesting that things could go funny, not that they will. Just be carefull with the stuff.
Just because I've used it safely and others have used it safely does not mean the next persons conditions will also be safe. Conditions are never quite the same and it's worst case scenario we need to be thinking of.so I'm not an xpurt
Charter Member #148
Where the heck is Smokin joe when you need a real xpurt?:
Charter Member #148
This is a concern - I actually purchased a canister of AR2205 (H4227) today with the idea of using it for 30-30 cast loads. What led me to consider this is actually semi-published data from ADI.
This data was emailed to me by ADI from their reloading inquiry service (great service by the way). In terms of reduced loads - what do you consider a reduced load? 15grains? (their starting load). I have put 15grains in a case and it probably only fills 2/5 of the case, less than I was expecting.
Do you think their loads are safe? Pressures seem reasonable, equivalent to Trail boss at listed maximum loads (other ADI information sheets give 29000cup at 9.0grains TB with 160grain cast)
Last edited by sthwestvictoria; 12-12-2012 at 07:34 AM.
ars longa, vita brevis
This last year I bought a mold from Tom at Accurate the 31-170E, I use 17grs of IMR4227 under it for my wifes 788 in 30-30. For now I can't see shooting anything else out of it and she agrees.
I'll second that.
Never laugh at your wife's choices.
You are one of them.
sthwstvictoria
Those listed velocities and psi are averages. Also in testing the ballisticians load each round in the test barrel in a consistent and specific manner which positions the powder pretty much the same for each test shot. Most all shooters do not do either at the bench or, particularly, in the field. Thus the psi and velocities can vary greatly with such loads depending on "powder positioning". I have measured very large extreme spreads of velocity and psi in cartridges when using reduced/starting loads of 4227 (I have both makes of 4227 and it is the same with both....2400, 5744, H110/296 and 4957 also) with lighter weight cast bullets (like a 150 gr in the 30-30) with out a dacron filler. Those powders do not begin to burn efficiently until a certain psi is reached. Many times by then the velocity is too high when that efficient psi range is reached and accuracy suffers. BTW; I have measured as much as 200 fps ES or variation between the powder being against the primer or against the bullet. Obviously the psi varies a much larger amount also. "Pressure spikes" are common with such loads. Whether or not those "pressure spikes" are dangerous depends on the load and the conditions of the barrel and throat. Have the wrong conditions with the wrong load and an SEE is very possible.
As noted also in earlier posts it is very easy with such reduced loads to double charge a case. Consistent loading procedures are needed to prevent such. I have developed a simple yet effective rule for such loads. The rule is; the only cases in a loading block/tray are charged cases. I do not use a loading block to hold the cases during any other stage of the loading; small plastic bins are used or small boxes. Thus onece a case is in the loading block I know it has powder in it. After charging each case I also visually check the powder level before putting the case in the loading block. I developed the above after double charging cases too many times that were already in the loading block. Fortunately I caught all such double charged cases before seating a bullet. However, I learned a lesson.....
Larry Gibson
Last edited by Larry Gibson; 12-12-2012 at 09:10 AM.
Good observation Larry.
As I said it worked fine until my gun got hot and it worked fine in other calibers. I got it to shoot so good in the .44 when working loads I thought I would win every time but it was not to be. Guns get HOT shooting IHMSA. Many guys had battery fans blowing through barrels during target setting, some sprayed water with alcohol through barrels.
Two minutes for 5 shots was enough to see the POI going down with each shot. That means the velocity is climbing. I had good load density to start but started to reduce the load from 24 gr to 21.5, no change, did the same thing.
The powder seems to be more caliber and case specific then any other.
I used to shoot a lot of the Hodgdon version under a 158 grain J-word in my Marlin 1894 .357 carbine. Good accuracy and velocity around 1700 fps. These days I put 19 grains under a gas checked 115 grain boolit in my Marlin 336 .30 WCF for an accurate and fun load with same POI as my 150 grain hunting loads. I wouldn't hesitate to try the IMR version in either one but I wonder if H110 might be better in these applications.
Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF, .45-70.
Drat. Well I may just have to hold onto the canister of AR2205 and not use it in the 30-30. I suppose this in a sign from the gods that I need a .357 lever. I have some AP70N (Hodgdons Universal) ordered and will use that instead. Same information about care with double loading is useful however.
ars longa, vita brevis
Since I have 2 revolvers in .357 Magnum with 6"+ barrels and a Marlin 1894c, and from the input here, I think that I will designate that 4 lbs of Australian made IMR 4227 primarily as my .357 Magnum powder.
When I use it for .44 Magnums, it will be for when just firing off a shoot here and there or when I am in very cold climate.
For the these two calibers and the IMR 4227, would these two bullets work well?
TL358-158-SWC
TL430-240-SWC
Last edited by Southern Shooter; 12-12-2012 at 05:08 PM.
Posting Permissions
| BP | Bronze Point | IMR | Improved Military Rifle | PTD | Pointed |
| BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
| BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
| C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
| HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
| PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
| LRN | Lead Round Nose | LWC | Lead Wad Cutter | LSWC | Lead Semi Wad Cutter |
| GC | Gas Check |
Reply With Quote
