10 Ga. Brass Source

[CANUCK]

Hello everyone,
Is there anyone making the all brass shotshells in 10 Ga?
I have an old double barrel 10 Ga. that says "fine twist" and also "F. Doumolin @ Co." (I believe) stamped on the barrel as well.
I have 12 all brass emptys but some have hairline cracks in them and I assume they should not be used.
Why do they crack? Excessive re-use or is there something wrong with the old gun?
Many thanks.

[I'll Make Mine]

Magtech makes every reasonably common gauge (and some that aren't) in all brass, for large pistol primers.

Cracking is caused by work hardening, which is due to excessive expansion and sizing cycles. If you don't size your shells and keep them for one shotgun, they'll last virtually forever. If you shoot them in more than one gun, you'll need to size them, so you'll need to anneal about 1/3 of the case at the mouth end every fifth loading or so -- again, size no smaller than needed and anneal this way, and they'll last many dozens of loadings.

If you're shooting black powder, you should also clean the shells after use to prevent corrosion -- generally the same cleaning method you'd use on the barrel (i.e. hot, soapy water) except you don't need to follow with oil on the brass shells.

[CANUCK]

Thanks for the info!

[6pt-sika]

I have a nice old W&C Scott 10 gauge that has damascus barrels . I use a fairly light load of smokeless in plastic Remington or Federal hulls cut down to 2 7/8" with a regular folded crimp and it works just fine with both birdshot and buckshot .

I use SR7625 with 1 1/4 ounces of bird or buck shot . Killed many many clay birds and feathered birds shooting #8's and one deer using 00 .

[I'll Make Mine]

I'd be very concerned shooting smokeless in a Damascus barrel -- if it's real Damascus, it's nearly (if not over) a hundred years old and, due to corrosion between layers, most likely unsafe even with black powder (assume Damascus steel is unsafe until proven safe by metallurgical testing). If it's a solid steel or "liquid steel" barrel surface finished to resemble Damascus, it's probably fine as long as it passes regular gunsmith tests. If the inside of the bore (as seen with a borescope; your eye may not be able to distinguish this viewing from muzzle or chamber) shows no sign of the layering and "twist" it's probably liquid steel; you may also be able to confirm this based on manufacturer information (some makers never used Damascus, but many/most shotguns were finished to resemble what was then the more expensive and preferred material).

[6pt-sika]

I'd be very concerned shooting smokeless in a Damascus barrel -- if it's real Damascus, it's nearly (if not over) a hundred years old and, due to corrosion between layers, most likely unsafe even with black powder (assume Damascus steel is unsafe until proven safe by metallurgical testing). If it's a solid steel or "liquid steel" barrel surface finished to resemble Damascus, it's probably fine as long as it passes regular gunsmith tests. If the inside of the bore (as seen with a borescope; your eye may not be able to distinguish this viewing from muzzle or chamber) shows no sign of the layering and "twist" it's probably liquid steel; you may also be able to confirm this based on manufacturer information (some makers never used Damascus, but many/most shotguns were finished to resemble what was then the more expensive and preferred material).

You be concerned all you want I shoot several ACTUAL damascus guns with light smokeless loads . All either english guns or Parkers .

I do not feel the need to try and explain to you the hows and the whys this is safe in my guns . So i won't .

I am quite able to tell genuine damascus . My 16 gauge Parker is the newest of the lot and that one was made in 1910 I believe . All the english guns were made before 1900 .

[I'll Make Mine]

You be concerned all you want I shoot several ACTUAL damascus guns with light smokeless loads .

Nice attitude. Glad it's your face and not mine next to those barrels.

[6pt-sika]

Nice attitude. Glad it's your face and not mine next to those barrels.

To sorta paraphrase John Paul Jones !


You have not yet begun to see my attitude

Actually my suggestion to you since you live in NC is go to the
Southern Side by Side next year in Sanford North Carolina and see how many folks do the same thing I do without any problems and a good many shoot far older guns then myself .

[skeettx]

To answer the OP question
YES, Rocky Mountain Cartridges makes all brass 10 gauge hulls
Expensive but available and useable

http://rockymountaincartridge.com/rm...ice%20List.pdf

Yes, I shoot twist and damascus guns, if the gun is in GREAT condition
Pressure is pressure and if your load is the same pressure as factory load
of that time, all is good

Mike

[6pt-sika]

Yes, I shoot twist and damascus guns, if the gun is in GREAT condition
Pressure is pressure and if your load is the same pressure as factory load
of that time, all is good

Mike

All my damascus loads are below factory pressure or atleast thats what the load books say !

The only way I may be pushing it a bit is swapping buck shot in about the same weight as birdshot . But it seems to work okay so far .

[6pt-sika]

I read an article not to long ago about a fellow that wanted to see "strongness" of fluid steel versus damascus . Seems shooting the same loads the fluid steel barrels gave up the ghost before the damascus barrels and I think he went a bit further without the damascus barrels letting go . After that i think he thought it prudent to curtail his testing .

[I'll Make Mine]

Seems shooting the same loads the fluid steel barrels gave up the ghost before the damascus barrels and I think he went a bit further without the damascus barrels letting go.

This is deeply dependent on the condition of the Damascus barrel. Yes, when new they were stronger than fluid steel of similar dimensions. If yours are in perfect condition and you're confident enough of that to fire them from the shoulder, that's your decision. The general rule with Damascus seems to be to consider it unsafe until it's been through some serious testing (testing that isn't cheap) to ensure it doesn't have corrosion between layers; that corrosion can weaken the barrel to the point it's unsafe even with very light loads (as you surely know). As noted, pressure is pressure; those barrels are no safer or less safe depending on whether that pressure is produced by black or smokeless -- but I'd hate to see your comments taken to mean someone could take great-granddad's old 1870-something rabbit-ear off the pegs over the mantle and drop a couple "target load" shells in it to see what a 12 gauge feels like, because a Damascus piece that's sat for eighty years without maintenance really, really needs to be considered unsafe until it's been rigorously tested.

[6pt-sika]

This is deeply dependent on the condition of the Damascus barrel. Yes, when new they were stronger than fluid steel of similar dimensions. If yours are in perfect condition and you're confident enough of that to fire them from the shoulder, that's your decision. The general rule with Damascus seems to be to consider it unsafe until it's been through some serious testing (testing that isn't cheap) to ensure it doesn't have corrosion between layers; that corrosion can weaken the barrel to the point it's unsafe even with very light loads (as you surely know). As noted, pressure is pressure; those barrels are no safer or less safe depending on whether that pressure is produced by black or smokeless -- but I'd hate to see your comments taken to mean someone could take great-granddad's old 1870-something rabbit-ear off the pegs over the mantle and drop a couple "target load" shells in it to see what a 12 gauge feels like, because a Damascus piece that's sat for eighty years without maintenance really, really needs to be considered unsafe until it's been rigorously tested.

Give it a rest !

You do it your way and I'll keep doing what I do !

And if it ever gets me you can say I told you so at my fing funeral .

10 , 12 and 20 gauge W&C Scotts , all damascus and all shot REGULARLY !



16 gauge Parker GH damascus and a Fox AH 16 fluid steel that are also regularly shot !



10 gauge W&C Scott with some dove from a late season hunt a couple years back !



And finally the 10 gauge W&C Scott with a doe I killed two or three years ago using my home loaded 00 Buck loads .

[Mike Brooks]

I've been shooting guns with damascus barrels for over 30 years with BP and SR 7625. No problemo. You can get SR 7625 pressures as low as BP. All of you who fear your damascus barrelled guns please send them to me.

[Mike Brooks]

I might add my oldest cartridge gun was made in 1864 as a pinfire and later converted to centerfire. Again, no problemo. My oldest ML flint double with damascus barrels was made ca. 1820 or so.....ain't killed me yet!

[6pt-sika]

I've been shooting guns with damascus barrels for over 30 years with BP and SR 7625. No problemo. You can get SR 7625 pressures as low as BP. All of you who fear your damascus barrelled guns please send them to me.

You don't by chance have an 8 gauge SxS damascus do you ?

I have a huge urge to get a decent hammerless Parker 8 gauge to uhm play with

Based on the relative cost of a decent one and what I'm going to need to get to load for the thing I'm thinking I may be better off just adding a nice old Parker 10 gauge hammerless damascus gun and be done with it !

[10 ga]

Sitka, My bro has great grandfathers #8 double that he used to earn $ back in the 1800s. He was a commercial hunter on the Eastern shore of va. Bro has both paper and brass shells and his reloading gear. Gun not shootable but a real piece of history. His old homemade "battery" gun and punter ended up getting captured and are up on "Broad Street" in Richmond at the DGIF hq. Even have some of his dekes but not many. Dad (90) said he used the #8 mostly for flock shooting beach peeps and shorebirds. Have you been over to ES for the sika deer this year? Hopw all well! 10 ga

[6pt-sika]

Sitka, My bro has great grandfathers #8 double that he used to earn $ back in the 1800s. He was a commercial hunter on the Eastern shore of va. Bro has both paper and brass shells and his reloading gear. Gun not shootable but a real piece of history. His old homemade "battery" gun and punter ended up getting captured and are up on "Broad Street" in Richmond at the DGIF hq. Even have some of his dekes but not many. Dad (90) said he used the #8 mostly for flock shooting beach peeps and shorebirds. Have you been over to ES for the sika deer this year? Hopw all well! 10 ga

I had a chance at a couple 8 gauge Parker's earlier this year . Well I say I had a chance , but in reality they were priced way higher then anything I could go !

I'd still like to have a nice old shootable 8 gauge SxS . You mention a punter , thats something else I've wanted ever since I read James Michners book "Cheasapeake" about 15 years ago , always thought one with a bronze barrel that had been manufactured in Britian would be great . Dunno what I'd do with the darn thing but always though it would be cool to have !

Hope all of you are doing well also !

I'm good , my pops good , my fiancee in the Philippines is good and I am planning a trip there for 3 weeks beginning early February 2013 .

Made two trips to Marylands Eastern Shore this season for Sika's . The first was for there early ML season and I didn't see a deer . The second was friday a week after thanksgiving for the second day of the gun hunt on the Blackwater NWR . Didn't see any Sika that day either but I did see 8 whitetails at 8AM and another at 11:30 AM so I shot the one at 11:30 since he was about 20 yards from the tree I was perched in !
Those two days of hunting I stayed perched in the tree 25 hours total in 2 days and got one little button buck . But thats beetter then nothing and or not being alive LOL's !