Pointed vs. blunted bullets

[rays308]

ACWW = Air Cooled wheal weights.
WDWW = Water Dropped Wheel Weights.

[fatelvis]

TYGIAI = Thank you guys, I appreciate it! Lol

[fatelvis]

One question: Will the larger neck with fatter bullet fit in the '06's chamber? Hmm, time to try it!

[popper]

Send your chamber cast to Accurate or other custom maker and tell them what you want. You should also think about the lube groove # and style. Personally I'd go with small meplat vs the RN.

[dverna]

Timely thread.

I am on the 311365 GB and it is a long pointy sucker - nearly 200 gr. Fatevlis, I have the same objective as you. I want to shoot "cheap" bullets for practice and save the 175 MK's for 'serious work'. I am not interested in hunting with it.

I do not understand "slump". Does a thin copper jacket "solve" slump? Why? Will a Linotype bullet slump too. If I have to, I will cast it in straight Linotype as I have a good supply and it will still be cheaper than jacketed bullets.

Don

[fatelvis]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...ghlight=311365

#20 of this thread makes me want to try a spitzer. 4-5 MOA @ 500 yds difference from the 311299?! Wow! Just when I was gearing up for the long, blunt nosed bullet! Guess I gotta see for myself, and buy both.

[Harter66]

Based on my experience recently w/a self cast/created mould and design for a full spire pointed boolit cast to about bhn 12 plain based 30 Cal 200gr , the slump, aka nose and ogive collapsing happens right around 1900 fps w/4350 in a 1-9 twist 06'. For pure target work lino will be fine and can be driven somewhat faster. I also shot the same boolit in a 7. 6 2 x 3 9 to 1800 fps w/o any trouble.

My 200/308 boolit :
1.21 long
.6 from base to front band
.2 bore ride
.4 nose w/6" radius ogive
.09 meplat
It drops at 316 which works for both rifles I used it in as their throats are long and wide.
Paper patched I size them to 301 which then removes all of the bore riding section mostly filling the grooves too. I can get them to 2200 but then the WDWW is to hard for game. It sports a calculated BC of 368 and 4something. Chrony and known drop to 250 yds do confirm those numbers.

[MtGun44]

The one spitzer I have tried (311413) works well at moderate velocities. I have been told that many
have failed when trying to push it harder. I presume this is inability to withstand the higher pressures
when loading to higher velocities.

I am still learning about rifle boolits, but so far at moderate velocities I have had some notable successes.

Bill

[Bjornb]

I've been reading Joe Brennan's "Cast Bullets For Beginners And Experts"; here is a link: http://www.lasc.us/indexBrennan.htm
(I bought his CD for $5 and printed out all 600 pages). A lot of the regulars on this forum contributed to this incredible collection of documentation regarding shooting cast boolits. My point regarding your case: Brennan goes very deep into casting for 30 caliber rifles, with references to just about every possible mould. Well worth the read.

[jhalcott]

I had more (easier) success with a .308 rifle than with the Garand.My rem 700 didn't like many of the molds I had. Alloy did not make a lot of difference. I tried BHN's from about 12 to 28. The .308 was more forgiving on all counts. I had a 185 grain pointy bullet mold that seemed to be made for that .308! Cast from used linotype (18 bhn) , it did all I could want.

[HARRYMPOPE]

Hard relatively pointed bullets (30 caliber 311332-311299-311365 Ideal) with enough nose that rides the bore shoot very well to about 2000 fps in my 308 and 30BR rifles.The RN and blunt bullets get beat up by the wind in the 200 yard matches for me though to 100 they are often very good.

[HARRYMPOPE]

Harter66 how did you determine nose slump? Were you able to recover them in snow or oiled sawdust?

George

[Harter66]

I had worked up loads to group failure w/Red dot,Unique and 4350 plain based and naked. In Evey case the groups opened then tumbled . Some of the opened groups showed wadcutter holes while some were egg shaped. I was able w/4350 to push faster by simply going to a harder alloy. In this case for the 06' 75/25 WW/1-20 vs 50/50. The terminal performance wasn't what I wanted/needed from that boolit that hard. I have to meet a minimum 100yd energy level here for big game. Slumping and/or nose drift/deformation are the most likely answer to what occurred on the target.

[HARRYMPOPE]

My buddy has killed about 20 deer with a 180g-200g 30 caliber going 1800 out of stright WW.No shot was over 125 yards.The few 311284's that were recovered showed nice expansion.

I'd like to see an (undamaged by impact) recovered bullet to see how much a nose slumps at a given velocity and alloy.

[waksupi]

My buddy has killed about 20 deer with a 180g-200g 30 caliber going 1800 out of stright WW.No shot was over 125 yards.The few 311284's that were recovered showed nice expansion.

I'd like to see an (undamaged by impact) recovered bullet to see how much a nose slumps at a given velocity and alloy.

Try shooting into some snow piles this winter, and recover next spring. I get perfect samples back like you are talking about.

[madsenshooter]

Because I cast primarily for long range target, I am inclined to want a spitzer design (Ly 311365). But if I am immediately handicapping myself by choosing that design, I would like to know! Lol

Oh, I don't think you'd be handicapping yourself with 311365, my Krag rifles like them! I think that with just a little work the load could outdo the expensive match J-words, certainly so if the shooting is done at 200yds like NRA Vintage Rifle matches.

[Harter66]

I offer the Lyman 47th edition in the front section they discuss things found in the high speed shadow capture photos. More specifically a reference to a 180 gr pointed soft point that was captured in flight altered by setback and or slump to a round nose. The solution for them was a tougher jacket. Our solution is a shorter nose or harder alloy. I recall 303 guy posting some pictures of slumped Boolits that were clearly not "square" at the muzzle,being that only part of the nose was rifle grooved. Slump is the best and most viable explanation I have for a harder alloy shooting tighter groups at load levels that produced oval holes w/softer alloys.

A snow bank here happens about as often as a Lotus stays out overnight in Cadillac MI.

[303Guy]

Here is evidence of bump up or slumping of the boolit nose.

The core


Patched


Bumped up nose


See the rifling and groove mark on the bumped up nose?


There is nose damage from impact but what we should be looking at is the paper patch impression on the nose shank which can only happen inside the bore. There is no way I could compare a spire point with a round or flat nose because of impact damage.