Pointed vs. blunted bullets

[fatelvis]

I'm sure this has been covered before, but I can't find an answer after a short search. Are "blunted" bullets, or bullets with flattened tips generally better as a cast boolit design, verses a pointed nose boolit? If so, why? Any input would be appreciated.

[cbrick]

Flat point or spitzer isn't better or worse because it's a cast boolit, just like with J-words it all depends on what the intended purpose is.

Rick

[fatelvis]

Because I cast primarily for long range target, I am inclined to want a spitzer design (Ly 311365). But if I am immediately handicapping myself by choosing that design, I would like to know! Lol

[doubledown]

I cast .44 caliber and up, so all of my rifles shoot wide flat nose boolits. It is my experience that a flat nose cast boolit is extremely effective when hunting. All shots are under 150 yards It's all I cast.

[cbrick]

Because I cast primarily for long range target, I am inclined to want a spitzer design (Ly 311365). But if I am immediately handicapping myself by choosing that design, I would like to know! Lol

Handicap? It depends entirely on what you want the boolit to do when it arrives at the target.

Rick

[kir_kenix]

Because I cast primarily for long range target, I am inclined to want a spitzer design (Ly 311365). But if I am immediately handicapping myself by choosing that design, I would like to know! Lol

I think you would be suprised how well flat point or round nose boolits shoot at long range. For starters, we generally fire our projectiles at a lower initial velocity than j-word boolits, they are generally much heavier than their j-word counterparts, and they usually don't have a BC friendly boat-tail (negating most of the advantages of 'pointy' jacketed projectiles). These 3 factors erase alot of the percieved advantages in BC over BT jacketed bullets. Even in .30 caliber boolits, you'll find that you are more than capable of shooting out to 600 (or 1k if you have the capacity to launch one of the REALLY heavy .30's).

If you let us know what your goals are we could probably give you some pointers/suggestions on long range shooting. Remember, it's not how fast they get there, it's how many find there way into the 10 ring. A few more inches in drop or a couple more MOA of windage can usually be overcome with 10 to 20 MOA bases and gernerous elevation adjustments found in most modern optics.

Somewhere here on CB there is a BC listing for most common boolits within a defined range of alloy/weight if you want to crunch the numbers yourself.

[fatelvis]

I just want to punch holes in paper, or hit steel accurately at long range. (200-600 yds). I'm looking for the highest BC I can get. I guess I was wondering if the long pointed nose effected accuracy negatively somehow, in a cast boolit. I never had a spitzer mould, and it seems most people I'm seeing are using 311284, 311299,311291, etc. Not as many seem to be using the 311365, 311329,311397,311414, etc.

[kir_kenix]

I'm too slow of a typer and I see there have been several posts since I started my response. How long of range are you talking? Round or flat point boolits put nice holes in paper as long as they are still balistically stable when they hit the paper...

I don't think there are any accuracy advantages to spire points, but I've never done or seen an in-depth analasis with cast boolits.

[fatelvis]

I'm too slow of a typer

Lol, how about it! My kids were faster than me when they were 8!

Somewhere here on CB there is a BC listing for most common boolits within a defined range of alloy/weight if you want to crunch the numbers yourself.

Does anyone know where this table is? I tried searching to no avail.

[x101airborne]

My humble opinion, is if you are wanting the most accuracy of any cartrige a long pointed boolit with an unsupported nose is harder to work with. A short, more rounded nose with a supported shank area (in front of the crimp ring behind the nose) is easier to work with for accuracy. Like the difference in the lyman bore rider round nose design and the lyman spitzer design duplicating the profile of the FMJ loads. Not that you CANT get good accuracy with the spitzer style, it just seems easier to me to get the round nose and stubby nose boolits to shoot without much work.

[kir_kenix]

My humble opinion, is if you are wanting the most accuracy of any cartrige a long pointed boolit with an unsupported nose is harder to work with. A short, more rounded nose with a supported shank area (in front of the crimp ring behind the nose) is easier to work with for accuracy. Like the difference in the lyman bore rider round nose design and the lyman spitzer design duplicating the profile of the FMJ loads. Not that you CANT get good accuracy with the spitzer style, it just seems easier to me to get the round nose and stubby nose boolits to shoot without much work.

Good advise given here. Do you have a chamber cast so you know how long/tapered/abrupt your throat is in your rifle?

[fatelvis]

I just cast my first chamber a couple days ago. Time to get busy!

[Larry Gibson]

For a given weight of cast bullet the spitzer/pointed bullet will generally have quite a bit less bearing surface and a lot more totally unsupported nose hanging out. At higher accelleration rates both reasons cause imbalances to occure in the bullet and or the axis of flight not coinciding with the line of flight. The higher the accelleration/velocity the higher the RPM and the greater the adverse affect on accuracy. This is why the older spitzer shaped cast bullets for the 7mm, 30 cal and 8mm do not shoot that accurately above 1700 fps +/-. Newer, heavier spitzer designs with much longer bearing surfaces give much better accuracy at higher accelleration/velocity.

Larry Gibson

[fatelvis]

Ok, now this is starting to make sense now! So using a heavy-for-caliber boolit that has a long bearing surface looks like my best bet? Lym31101, 02,03, 311467?

[Bullshop]

Just a tidbit to add to the mix. In the book " Yours Truly " which was a collection of articals by Harvy Donaldson Harvy mentioned more than once that he felt that a round nose bullet was on average more accurate than a spitzer. He was including bullets in his assesment as well as boolits.

[sundog]

fatelvis, what you are doing is exactly what led me to using a 314299 sized .312 in the '06 - nose support and bearing surface.

I would think that with a boolit harder than ACWW and a little oomph behind it, long distance (600 yds +) should be easily attainable.

If you have not looked at this thread about case prep, you might want to.

[rays308]

I'm sure this has been covered before, but I can't find an answer after a short search. Are "blunted" bullets, or bullets with flattened tips generally better as a cast boolit design, verses a pointed nose boolit? If so, why? Any input would be appreciated.

Spire point boolits can easily deform at the pointed end. search on the word slump and you should find many threads on the subject.
Its the long unsupported point. If its not centered in the bore it will bend or slump.

I shoot the 311365, 314365 and 311332 alot out of my savage 10. In my experience the best way to overcome slump is hard cast( at least WDWW), slow ball powder and the most important part, seat the boolit so it snugs into the rifling about .0010 or so for alignment into the barrel.

The 311247 Blackout and the 311299 do well at longer ranges also. I think its as much do to self centering on the bore ride nose as anything else.

It takes some work to get 311365s to shoot accuratly at higher velocities but, its cheap, fun and a real good learning curve.

I tried paper patching 311365 some. I couldnt get them centered in the bore. Found I really didnt need the few extra fps anyway.

I would advise you to start with a light loads to work on the best boolit fit into the bore(best seating depth for best accuracy)
Then start pushing the velocity to get the speed.

I also found that when working up the speed, groups can open at a certain powder charge then close again with a little more.

Hope this helps.

[fatelvis]

Thank you! These will be used in a Garand and a bolt 30-06.

What is ACWW?

[fatelvis]

If you have not looked at this thread about case prep, you might want to.

Ahhh, very good idea! Redding's FL bushing die takes all the "customizing " out of the equation!

Thank you Rays, I did hear about slump in the past!

[cbrick]

What is ACWW?

Air Cooled Wheel Weight.

Rick