My Zouave

[jnovotny]

This is the zoli I just aquired from a member. Don't know who got the better end of the trade but we are both happy! This is a carbine, it is shorter than a friend of mine's musket and it has no bayonet lug.

[fouronesix]

That should be a handy variation! It'll be interesting to find out how well it shoots and how high it shoots at 50 yards.

[Hellgate]

That is a great gun. Much like the "Buffalo Hunter" they put out years ago. One suggestion to kep it looking new: Make a little shield or flash guard for that nipple. I use a little elliptical shaped piece of aluminum sheeting or even copper or rubber to place over the nipple so the flashback doesn't scorch the wood right behind the nipple. Cut a small square or diamond in the center to go over the nipple. Most caplocks have a bit of metal that takes the flash but the repro Zouaves don't so you can tell how much the gun has been shot by how charred the wood is behind the nipple. Now, maybe if you shot mouse fart loads it wouldn't happen but I shoot hunting loads with big old minies and my gun (Zouave full sized) still looks good as new. If I could have found one like yours I would have bought it. They are much easier to handle around vehicles and you don't lose much velocity from that short barrel. All you lose is sight radius which is important too. I have an Enfield Musketoon which is a chopped Enfield (full bbl length is 39") with a 24" barrel. The Zouave is (I think a 32 or 33" two bander). A short barreled big bore caplock is to me, an ideal hunting rifle for BP hunts. If your gun recoils too much with heavy minies, put on a slip-on shotgun recoil pad. See photo. Musketoon using 530gr Lyman 577611 minie+90grs Goex=one DRT cow elk.

[jnovotny]

Thanks for the advice, haven't shot the thing yet. Cast up some minnies just yesterday and will try to get out this weekend.

[Buckshot]

...........I had an old Zouave from YEARS ago and made it into a carbine. I was putting a banded nose piece on it so the forend is inletted longer then normal. While it's handy it's amazing the difference in recoil and that or the full sized one.

..............Buckshot

[TNsailorman]

My Dad had one of those .58 cal. Navy Arms "Buffalo Hunters" carbine that mom, my brother and I bought him for Christmas one year. Dad loved to shoot it and he was deadly with it inside 100 yards. He shot patched roundballs with it. He died in 98. The last time I saw it about 3 years ago it was still in excellent condtion. My sister got it when mom died. I would have loved to get it to go with my .58 Zoauve rifle.

[Hellgate]

Jnovotny,
I just went to look at my Zouave and yours is not a carbine, it is the regular two banded model with a 33" barrel. They are shorter and less wieldy than the full length Civil War rifled muskets. The Buffalo Hunter has a 26" barrel held by a wedge and is a half stock type rifle with a heavy round barrel. My Zouave (Zoli) has a bayonet lug on the left side of the barrel a few inches from the muzzle. Maybe yours is not a Zoli. Several Italian companies and maybe others made them.

[fouronesix]

This is the zoli I just aquired from a member. Don't know who got the better end of the trade but we are both happy! This is a carbine, it is shorter than a friend of mine's musket and it has no bayonet lug.

Your picture in the OP of the Zoli Zouave does look like a short version of the standard 33" barreled Zouave.
Here's a picture of a 33" barreled Zoli Zouave. Note the difference in barrel lengths. Of course the easy way would be to measure the barrel length.

[fouronesix]

For perspective- here's some original examples of Mexican War/Civil War longarms.

Top to bottom

M1842-------69 cal 42" barrel smoothbore
M1863-------58 cal (T1) 40" barrel rifled
M1841-------54 cal (Mississippi) 33" barrel rifled
M1863-------58 cal Remington contract (Zouave) 33" barrel rifled
P53 Enfield--58 cal (577) carbine 24" barrel rifled

[Hellgate]

jnovotny,
Could you measure the barrel length on your new rifle. It's driving me nuts trying to figure out the length. At first, I thought it was a Zouave but it has been pointed out that it is not so I've been trying to calculate the bbl length beased on the two scales inthe photo. My calculations say it is a 28" barrel, right?

[jnovotny]

The barrel measures 26 inches from the muzzle to the breech,not includeing the tang. The gun is marked antonio zoli &co. It is a zouve just a short one . There is no bayonet lug. Man fouroesix them are some awesome guns you have there, I can only afford the replicas.

[fouronesix]

Thanks for measuring barrel- that is not quite as short as a carbine but shorter than the original rifle. Very interesting.

Ya, it's taken me a long time to budget them in. The hardest being the Mississippi. Old originals are not only expensive these days but very difficult to find with top condition bores. I do shoot them (with care!). That's one of the reasons I have the Zoli- I can shoot it and not feel like it's decreasing in value from the normal wear and tear. Plus, the originals with really high condition bores simply can't be easily found or replaced even if $ wasn't an issue- a booboo with one of them... yikes!

Just a side note on condition of the originals- in particular the bores. And points out how important correct maintenance is and always will be. The second from the top is a Springfield M1863 T1 made in 1863. It appears to have never been fired- naturally the bore is pristine. The carbine on the bottom is a British contract P53 carbine made in 1856. This gun has seen lots of action! The wood is oil darkened and has multiple handling dings and the metal has dings and quite a bit of exposure patina. The mechanical function however is perfect and the lock is surprisingly clean and crisp on the inside. Now at 156 years old with who knows how much hard field use, the bore is nearly flawless (and it shoots like it!). Just a testament to whoever it was issued to and later who owned it and their dedication to cleaning and maintenance. Compare that to so many of the closet side locks of recent manufacture that have sewer pipe bores.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
Nice group fouronesix ! As a collector of US military I can attest to the fact the rarer martial arms are in pristine condition are beyond the average budget of working men. But fortunately there are alternatives available that maybe show thier age some but are still servicable. Had my 1826 Hall Flintlock out twice this year hoping for an opportunity to down a corn cruncher. But it was not to be. It will return to the Danville War Museum with it's 1832 percussion cousin to sit again in the quiet with other stable mates from long ago actions... If they could only talk.
Mike in ILL.

[fouronesix]

As a collector of US military I can attest to the fact the rarer martial arms are in pristine condition are beyond the average budget of working men.

This thread is wandering a little but it helps point to the importance of reproduction arms. Without those it would be nearly impossible for anyone to get a first hand taste of this history. Looking past external condition issues- there are still a few affordable and shootable ones out there within the reach of most budgets. But, it seems once the 1841 transition is breeched and moves into the flintlock era there is an exponential jump in rarity and value that does exclude most budgets- and to a greater degree the obligation to serve as stewards of history really kicks in. missionary, you are very fortunate with the opportunity to shoot those.

[jnovotny]

I have molded up some minnies and will try to get it out this weekend. It's been a little cold here. Will try to post some pics afterwards.

[Hellgate]

Be sure to sort those minies by weight. I found quite a bit of variation til I learned to keep the lead pot very hot and to check for voids, especially in the hollow base. I went into a big box sporting goods store once and saw some minies that were cast and for sale. I would have tossed half of them into the pot. It was easy to see voids near the tip of the hollow base. If you don't weigh them you might have trouble getting real small groups. What minie are you casting?

[jnovotny]

I got a lee 575-500M, a 500 grain monster! I cast some from pure and some from my boolit alloy. Was wondering if you lube the skirt, looks like you would. A freind of mine has one that he says you shoot them dry, ie no lube. Thanks for all the support will keep you's posted.

[Hellgate]

I've NEVER hear to shoot them dry. You might want to visit the N/SSA website and bulletin board and look under accuracy. etc. Some people put lube inside the hollow base (crisco, or any of many BP lube formulas. Others fill the scraping grooves on the side of the minie and some do both. I've never seen where it was recommended to shoot them dry. I wonder if your frien has shot more than 3 or 4 shots in a row. BP fouling builds up pretty quick unless you are shooting in the rain or 90+% humidity. You might find the harder minies like a heavy charge (80-90grs) and the softer ones like a lighter charge like 30-50 grains. See link below.
www.n-ssa.org/

[fouronesix]

Dry?- me neither. You could try different ways. But as Hellgate said, chances are pretty good the fouling will probably get hard and make for really hard seating after a few shots.

Just do some experimenting- cleaning between trials and changing only one thing at a time. Take a good range rod and a lot of cleaning patches with something like moose milk with you. Shoot a few with just a dab in the base. Clean. Shoot a few with lube only on the shank. Clean. Shoot a few with lube in both the base and on the shank. Then with the type lubing that seems to work best, try different powder charges. With the pure lead, I wouldn't doubt somewhere around 50-60 gr BP will work. You could start at 40 gr and work up in 10 gr increments. Have fun!

[jnovotny]

My friend was probably pullin my leg, he likes to do that, when he told me that those minnies need no lube. I've been around long enough to know that they needed some lube,was gonna try some TC wonderlube that is what I use on my maxi boolits for huntin. The part about puttin it inside the hollow base has me scartchin my head. How will that work? Would you use a felt over the powder wad? Still don't see how lube is going to work inside of the skirt.Hopefully it will be alright saturday, weather wise, I am looking forward to trying it out.