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Thread: I believe the cast lead rifle boolit is the most effective projectile in the world.

  1. #81


    I just ordered a lyman #311041 and plan on hunting with a cast boolit in my 308. It should be fun getting it to shoot.
    Last edited by waksupi; 05-07-2013 at 11:47 PM.

  2. #82
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    Guys, I don't think I have ever done this before, and no offense to the new guy, but I am going to clean this mess up.

    You'll thank me later.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
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  3. #83
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    Later? I am thanking you right now!

    Thanks Waksupi, we needed that.

  4. #84
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    Some of the local goons think I'm barking mad for my fascination with cast lead. I've had more than one confused look when I explain the latest load I've been trying to get to work.
    It's a 235g Accurate plain base for my 308. In a 12 twist barrel it will not properly stabilize. I've been told that's stupid to even try but I've got it grouping quite well and say what they like, there is not and never will be a jacketed bullet that will expand to 1.335 (the length of this boolit) and chances are, an unstable boolit will begin to turn sideways on or after impact.

    I've also been schooled on cast boolit expansion since I picked up my newest hollow point mold from Ben. Gallon jugs of water look like I stuck an old ash can (from the 50's) in there and lit it. Boom!
    To get that same effect I have to use a very high velocity thin jacketed ear buster that ain't near as fun or cheap to shoot.

  5. #85
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    Thank you for that contribution Dean.
    That is what this thread is all about: the fact that you can do more with less....a lot less!
    After being indoctrinated with jacketed bullet jargon for so many years, the results that can be had from boolits that are barely going the speed of a 30 carbine is absolutely staggering. In fact, I wouldn't have believed it if I had not seen it with my own eyes.

    I still have those pictures on my phone, and whenever I find myself in a conversation trying to defend cast boolits as being the ultimate in effective hunting projectiles, they tend to make everybody shut up and listen.

    I have shot thousands and thousands of cast lead boolits, and as soon as I get something tacked down, I get bored with it, and move on to something else. Shots like this one are the the crescendo. I have a small number of shots that changed everything for me, or succinctly put the nails in the proverbial coffin, and this is one of them. I wish I had taken pictures of every single one that changed my thinking. In fact, I'm going to start a thread on that very subject.
    Tim Malcolm
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  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by goodsteel View Post
    Bravo!!!
    Finally, this thread performed its intended task!!!
    Sweet sweet fruition!!

    See now, this thread has put me in the position where I'm trying to figure out if
    1) my old Mauser will tolerate boolits, or if she's too messed up to shoot 'em well,
    2) if my No. 4 rifle likes lead, and
    3) how I'm going to get The Wife to allow me to cast for EITHER of them between now and this fall so that I can get good with the boolits before I go after the (multiple expletives deleted) "hoofed rats" that keep eating our garden!

    Personally, I do not care for the taste of venison, but I'm the only one in my family who feels that way. So I'll HAPPILY shoot 'em if they'll eat 'em.
    (Can you tell I grew up in a county with more deer than people? If we saw someone whose car looked like it had been in a front-end collision, "Are you OK?" was immediately followed - usually in the same breath - with "How big was the deer?")

    'Sifrid

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hickory View Post
    It has been my experience that a large majority of people who "hunt" deer, do so with the excuse to get away from the wife so as to get drunk every day of the hunt. Getting the deer the first day, set them up for a week of drunkenness. And if the deer can be killed at a distance less than a 1/4 mile it only requires a bullet that will preform up to a quarter mile every time. (Read hi-tech jacketed bullets.)
    Almost all of the people I know who hunt deer with cast boolits know the advantages and the disadvantages of cast boolits.
    The disadvantages are few. Killing a deer at over 200 yds. with cast lead boolits can be iffy at times.
    Gas checks, hard/soft lead, velocity and hollow point boolits all play a factor and all these factors need to be considered when using cast boolits.
    The rewards are many, knowing that you have an accurate tested load that you developed, cast and loaded yourself, is very satisfying.
    The only disadvantages that I see is, you have to be a more skilled "Hunter" in that you have to stalk and get close to your prey.

    Good shooting and may you always be successful.

    Hickory
    What could possibly be wrong with being a more skillful stalker/hunter?

  8. #88
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    Great thread Goodsteel.

    Glad you shared, and glad the thread got cleaned up. I am glad its back to a good old thread that I would expect of the good gents here. Kudos for having the guts to post your experience.

    I for one am glad to hear about how fast a boolit can be pushed, not because I think it is necessary for killing an animal, but because I am curious as to how close to j word speeds it can be pushed to increase practical shooting distance. Very interesting to read about you guys pushing to 23-2400+ fps. That would make a mean 300 yard cartridge. Probably further with good glass. Although I like up close and personal, it is neat to know faster and further is possible with boolits. Besides, just think how much you will save on dog food.

    Dan
    Last edited by NLS1; 07-19-2013 at 02:31 PM. Reason: Too wordy

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfer View Post
    This year I used the 311041 cast 1-WW/2PB, Quite soft in my opinion. Small HP 1/4" deep to insure expansion at longer range. Driven just under 1800 fps at the muzzle.
    Only shot two deer so far but performance was akin to a Nosler partition.
    I am quite pleased so far.

    Just cast some with a big HP going to the front driving band. Hope to try them on coyotes soon.
    I've found solids at this velocity will not anchor coyotes reliably unless perfect shots are made.
    I've found coyotes to be very difficult to consistently make perfect shots on.
    I'm not sure I understand the term "solid" with cast bullets unless you cast them so hard that they don't expand. Is it that you have cast the bullet so hard that the large meplate % wise it seems to have isn't enough to expand that you have to drill a hole to aid in opening up the bullet?

    If so, what would be the harm in casting a slightly softer bullet? The bullet is a gas check... and I don't know if gas checks work different in a cartridge than they do in my muzzleloaders, but I get virtually no leading with a gas check with if its not pure... very close to it, soft lead, so I'd be thinking why the necessity of the hollow point?

    Aloha...

  10. #90
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    Excellent question Rattus58, I have no answer for you.
    Tim Malcolm
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  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by waksupi View Post
    When ever I see someone showing off their HP hunting loads, I immediately mark them down as a pilgrim.
    Uh oh... (steps nervously in front of latest handloads).

  12. #92
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    Not sure I am fully understanding these last posts, but frankly with a good WFN cast "solid" there is simply no need for expansion.

    Being an old "J" expanding bullet hunter, I questioned this trend of thought until I had been there and done that.

    Now that I have been there and done that ----------------

    I find that not only, at least with a worthy caliber say .44 or larger, the WFN, non-expanding cast bullet at my 1650fps kills all out of expection and doesn't make mince meat of a critter doing it.

    Am I saying that my "solid" does not deform in any way? No, that would not be a hard fast fact in all cases. My first elk taken with the 465grWFN lost a bit of weight/deformed in the hard and heavy going it encountered when striking the large bones in the front shoulder but it did not mushroom as such, but rather retained it's basic shape and just kept plowing for a very long and greatly effective wound channel.

    Was very surprised to find this bullet, and never expect to find another, but it went a very long ways on that quartering shot before it stopped. Greatly impressed!

    Should this bullet have been softer or maybe a H.P. the negative factor of greater meat loss and shorter wound channel would have entered into the picture.

    The alloy is 50/50 WW/lead, quenched as it falls from the mold.

    Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

  13. #93
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    I agree, CDOC. I've had limited experience with CB's in game and it's all been with wide meplat boolits without HP's. It's all been very positive so far with .35 caliber and up. They kill as well as or better than j-words and I'm not getting much tracking practice in these days. I may feel differently if I ever get around to hunting with 30 cal boolits, hard to say. Some folks with much more experience are big fans of HP hunting boolits, I just haven't seen the need yet. I don't enjoy casting HP's so it's just as well.
    Endowment Life Member NRA, Life Member TSRA, Member WACA, NRA Whittington Center, BBHC
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  14. #94
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    TXGunNut,

    I tend not to experment as much as some, so many times if I can come up with a tried and true direction, I go that way rather then taking the side trips in an attempt to find something that may or may not work.

    So, that is the direction I took with cast boolit hunting.

    While I think that calibers such as the .35s, .375s, are quite likely to be good cast bullet rounds, there is simply no question when looking at cartridges of .40 caliber or above.

    So, with that thought in mind and after MUCH reading/research into what really and relyably worked in cast boolits, I went with the old 45/70.

    Now, after 4 deer and 2 elk I am just so impressed with the WFN profile, the only negative being with my first critter and a 355gr WFN at just over 2300fps.

    Yeeeeeeeeeow, was that ever too much of a good thing. Had read much about eating right up to the bullet hole on a cast bullet kill, but never in this world expected to see such a huge would channel with the tissue and bone simply gone!!!!!!!!!!!!

    And that with a nonexpanding cast "solid". That was a good teaching experience for an old "J" expanding bullet hunter!

    My main reason to hunt game animals, is and always has been - meat. A bullet that distroys more then is needed to get the job done does not find favor with this Ol'Boy, therefore bullet/boolit integrity is very important in my eyes.

    My WFN "solid", 465gr cast at 1650fps is so very impressive, I find that I wish I'd started down this road before I was such an Ol'Coot. No need to experment, other then to possibly improve groups, for as the old saying goes, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

    Later,

    Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

  15. #95
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    What does WFN mean? You see it describing bullets all over the place but not a SINGLE definition.... wide flat nose is the closest I can think of....

    Aloha..

  16. #96
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    Sorry Rattus58!!!! I find myself complaining about the same thing and then doing just that.

    Usually try to include, Wide Flat Nose some place before the "WFN" so that people are not hanging.

    It is much worse with all the people addicted to texting and the way they shorten every thing.

    Wide Flat Nose or Long Flat Nose (WFN-LFN) speaks to a bullet profile first made popular by Veral Smith of Lead Bullet Technology -LBT- if I recall correctly.

    A good read is Vearl's book on cast bullets in which he speaks of about the best handgun bullet profile - for taking game animals - being the full wad cutter (not the semi-wad cutter) and how effective it is on game. The problem not including the fact that full wad cutters are many times VERY soft, is bullet stability with the wad cutter.

    You can check out LBT on the net.

    Vearl also explains why the semi-wad cutter is possibly not as good as many people believe and expect.

    The WFN or LFN was designed to provide as large of a meplat - the flat portion at the front of a bullet - as possible and still have good down range stability.

    You can read many places of the great effectiveness of the WFN in taking game, and my experience, limited though it may be, points to the fact that those claims are true in spades.

    What a surprise to find a non-expanding bullet at less then 2000fps velocity providing such a great wound channel, and it is all because of the WFN/LFN bullet profile. AWESOME!

    Great wound channel and very long/deep penertration AND no expansion is needed!!!!.

    And if you will read the info from Randy Garrett and from the Bear Tooth bullet site, you will find that penertration is better/greatest at less then top - over 2000fps - velocities.

    Good WFN bullet in a caliber of reasonable dia. - bigger IS better - will take anything that walks North American and do so with a velocity of 1500 - 1700fps.

    Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
    Last edited by Crusty Deary Ol'Coot; 05-19-2013 at 06:01 PM.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Crusty Deary Ol'Coot View Post
    Sorry Rattus58!!!! I find myself complaining about the same thing and then doing just that.

    Usually try to include, Wide Flat Nose some place before the "WFN" so that people are not hanging.

    It is much worse with all the people addicted to texting and the way they shorten every thing.

    Wide Flat Nose or Long Flat Nose (WFN-LFN) speaks to a bullet profile first made popular by Veral Smith of Fead Bullet Technology -LBT- if I recall correctly.

    A good read is Vearl's book on cast bullets in which he speaks of about the best handgun bullet profile being the full wad cutter (not the semi-wad cutter) and how effective it is on game. The problem not including the fact that full wad cutters are many times VERY soft, is bullet stability with the wad cutter.

    You can check out LBT on the net.

    The WFN or LFN was designed to provide as large of a meplat - the flat portion at the front of a bullet - as possible and still have good down range stability.

    You can read many places of the great effectiveness of the WFN in taking game, and my experience, limited though it may be, points to the fact that those claims are true in spades.

    What a surprise to find a non-expanding bullet at less then 2000fps velocity providing such a great wound channel, and it is all because of the WFN/LFN bullet profile. AWESOME!

    Great wound channel and very long/deep penertration AND no expansion is needed!!!!.

    And if you will read the info from Randy Garrett and from the Bear Tooth bullet site, you will find that penertration is better/greatest at less then top - over 2000fps - velocities.

    Good WFN bullet in a caliber of reasonable dia. - bigger IS better - will take anything that walks North American and do so with a velocity of 1500 - 1700fps.

    Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
    --------------------------------
    Well you just couldn't help yourself could you Mr. Coot? You simply HAD to tell the truth again.

  18. #98
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    I agree with some of what you say CDOC, but beware that you start (or teach the youngsters to start) using hardness as a crutch, as I have so often encountered in this game.
    Seems that booliteers just can't help themselves!!!! They either have to make their boolits hard as diamonds and/or screw around with unnecessary HP's etc.
    May I be so bold as to suggest we split the difference, and quite trying to cram cast lead boolits into boxes they do not fit in?!?
    Please, I know its easier to think of a boolit as a solid that does not deform, or an ultra explosive that uses deformation as its only merit, but the truth of the matter is that a boolit is made of soft material, and even though you state very clearly that you believe they do not expand, I'm calling BS on that. Even a hard cast boolit expands some, and that small bit of expansion has huge effect on the game. Otherwise, a monolithic solid made of brass would be just as effective.
    Hmmm, no, no, that's what Barnes puts out to shoot elephants with.
    Well if the projectile does not expand, then what is the difference? (other than speed of course)

    The best case scenario is a flat nosed boolit that is made of semi-hard alloy, that will expand some and penetrate some, but certainly dump most of its energy on the target, and effect more of the game animal than any copper jacketed bullet ever could. That is the secret ingredient! The magical combo platter! The free sopapilla after the all you can eat fajita buffet!
    The boolit hits and sets up the shockwave (like any projectile of the same profile, going the same speed, would do) but the mass of the boolit allows it to keep it going, and that little bit of expansion makes it bigger as it goes! Its like the boolit has some follow through with the effect it has on flesh, like God designed it specifically for this purpose.

    All I did was tune the load so that the weight, hardness, and speed worked together to compound its effectiveness and I was amazed at the result.
    SO I made a 9bhn boolit with a semi-flat nose, hit the intended at 2050fps and I got twice what everybody else gets in damage.
    I wonder if I dropped the hardness to 7bhn and shot the same boolit at 1800 fps. You might be surprised at how closely the effect matches.
    so then I use a boolit with an even wider FN cast out of pure lead 5bhn and shoot it at 1600. Still blowing deer to pieces at 1600 fps? I wouldn't doubt it.
    Last edited by goodsteel; 05-19-2013 at 06:59 PM.
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  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crusty Deary Ol'Coot View Post
    Sorry Rattus58!!!! I find myself complaining about the same thing and then doing just that.

    Usually try to include, Wide Flat Nose some place before the "WFN" so that people are not hanging.

    It is much worse with all the people addicted to texting and the way they shorten every thing.

    Wide Flat Nose or Long Flat Nose (WFN-LFN) speaks to a bullet profile first made popular by Veral Smith of Lead Bullet Technology -LBT- if I recall correctly.

    A good read is Vearl's book on cast bullets in which he speaks of about the best handgun bullet profile - for taking game animals - being the full wad cutter (not the semi-wad cutter) and how effective it is on game. The problem not including the fact that full wad cutters are many times VERY soft, is bullet stability with the wad cutter.

    You can check out LBT on the net.

    Vearl also explains why the semi-wad cutter is possibly not as good as many people believe and expect.

    The WFN or LFN was designed to provide as large of a meplat - the flat portion at the front of a bullet - as possible and still have good down range stability.

    You can read many places of the great effectiveness of the WFN in taking game, and my experience, limited though it may be, points to the fact that those claims are true in spades.

    What a surprise to find a non-expanding bullet at less then 2000fps velocity providing such a great wound channel, and it is all because of the WFN/LFN bullet profile. AWESOME!

    Great wound channel and very long/deep penertration AND no expansion is needed!!!!.

    And if you will read the info from Randy Garrett and from the Bear Tooth bullet site, you will find that penertration is better/greatest at less then top - over 2000fps - velocities.

    Good WFN bullet in a caliber of reasonable dia. - bigger IS better - will take anything that walks North American and do so with a velocity of 1500 - 1700fps.

    Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
    Thank you!! One of the first muzzleloading bullets I started casting was a .451-425 by Rapine. This had a meplate of roughly 75%. Next I discovered the Lyman 457121. This was a little longer and heavier version that had to be sized to .452 in my guns. These were great killers of all sorts of game and I used it exclusively till a friend of mine designed a gas check bullet off the same design but somehow felt that the wide meplate would hamper it's svelt aerodymanic characteristic and therefore he reduced the meplate to roughly 30-40%. I "squish" the bullet when I lubesize them to "flatten em up" a little but the .452 seems to do the job all by itself at about 1300 fps. 475 grains provides enough "power" to plow right through everything I've ever shot and soft lead... I swear... well as God is my witness... love the stuff....

    I agree with you... on something else too... besides that the diameter does its own expansion... and that is stability. I've shot mostly .45 and 58 caliber bullets. I know longer bullets need good twist and the .451 needs about 1-20. My 58's are happy with anything between 1-40 and 1-70 as long as the my bullet is fairly squared... But in my fledgling opinion, the larger the diameter, the less the bullet seems to meander in game.

    Thank you.

    Much Aloha,

    Tom

  20. #100
    Boolit Master

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    My Accurate Mold 378-275H cast with 50% Clip-on Wheel Weight (COWW) and 50% Lino-type weighs 265 gr ... Shot into shredded rubber mulch ... Took about 26" to stop them! Going aproximately 1550 FPS



    I haven't shot any game with it yet.

    From reading this thread ... I decided to back out of the MiHec 30 cal HP Hunting boolit group buy, and bought another Accurate Mold a 312-165B ... This is actually for my AK ...



    The only disadvantage to slow and soft ... Is, trajectory!
    Last edited by Three-Fifty-Seven; 05-19-2013 at 07:32 PM.
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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check