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Thread: I believe the cast lead rifle boolit is the most effective projectile in the world.

  1. #21
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    goodsteel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by runfiverun View Post
    mo-tin and water time...
    man.
    i hit a small buck at 40 yds with x57 ackley and a hornady bonded bullet travelling a bit over 3-k at the muzzle.
    i thought it tore up some meat.. i quit using that combination.
    i'd not use yours either.
    That is just crazy talk!
    There's nothing wrong with my "combo".
    I just need to harden my boolits up a little.
    How was I supposed to know what it would do?
    RCBS 35-200-FN going 2000 FPS? That is an excellent combo! That combo shoots less than an inch at 100 yards. That is the single most popular boolit for the 358 Winchester.
    Perhaps you fellers are not understanding the scale of that photo. That is a very small deer.
    Also, there is absolutely no reason to ever HP a cast lead boolit! The whole concept of the HP took off when jacketed bullets hit the scene and wouldn't open fast enough to do any blessed good on the deerly departing LOL!
    Tim Malcolm
    MBT custom rifles & gunsmithing
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  2. #22
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    A 200 grain bullet at 2000 FPS is basically standard .35 Remington ballistics. I shot a couple of deer with my .35 Remington using IMR3031 and 200 grain bulk Remington 200 grain jacketed bullets a few years ago. Great performance, but not that destructive.

    A while back I shot some air cooled WW bullets from my .35 Whelen at probably a hair faster than that into wet newspaper and the bullets fragmented pretty badly. Seems like that may have happenned here (?) Perhaps a softer alloy is the answer rather than a harder one?

    I really need to get that RCBS mold, I have not heard a bad thing said about that particular bullet yet.

  3. #23
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    Keep in mind, if your impact velocity is over 2200fps, expect to ruin a lot of meat. People have GOT to get velocity on the back burner. A well designed boollit, and proper placement is what kills. Don't worry about the speed. Kill the animal with the hole.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  4. #24
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    Ric I basically agree with your stement, but must add this caveat.

    You can push the velocity up there a bit as long as you tweak the alloy and possibly the shape of the boolit nose a bit. At impact speeds of 2200 plus the need for meplate diminishes really rapidly. Every flat boolit I have ever ran into a deer at 2000 or so plus has shown signs of a pressure wave. Balance the speed/alloy/nose shape and you can push them faster without detonating the boolit and the tougher alloy will normally reward you with tighter groups to boot. A slightly faster boolit is easier to hit with when you start talking 200-250 yard shots with cast in mid range calibers. Now granted most shots are not taken that far, but it is sure nice to know you have the ability to do so if need be.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodsteel View Post
    Also, there is absolutely no reason to ever HP a cast lead boolit! The whole concept of the HP took off when jacketed bullets hit the scene and wouldn't open fast enough to do any blessed good on the deerly departing LOL!
    I have to disagree with that. I am very happy with my hollow points in my 45 acp and my 22 cal varmint loads.

  6. #26
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    whats wrong with expansion
    I see a mushroom a better killer than a pencil
    lot of older guys use hp and cast them as well
    all a balance game
    Hit em'hard
    hit em'often

  7. #27
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    What would that boolit have done if it just hit a soft green rib going in and missed a rib going out or visa versa on a broadside shot? There is the practice of many to hit the shoulder or point of the shoulder on the way in or out for maximum (any) boolit performance. Then there is the practice of hitting the rib or slats just behind the V of the front shoulder. Both practices require different boolit/speed configurations. Game and terrain does not always present the hunter who chooses one of these practices his/her optimum conditions for their method. Hence sometimes there will be excessive meat loss and sometimes there will be excessive tracking. Enjoy those backstraps on the BBQ Goodsteel.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by white eagle View Post
    whats wrong with expansion
    I see a mushroom a better killer than a pencil
    lot of older guys use hp and cast them as well
    all a balance game
    That's true, but lots of the old guys were under the impression that harder is better, so the HPs they cast up made a little sense given they were casting boolits out of Lyman #2 and linotype LOL. I prefer to use a flat pointed boolit and let the alloy do the talking. The boolit that caused the hole in the original picture had less than 1.5% antimony and no tin, and pretty much illustrates my point......a little too succinctly.
    What would that boolit have done if it just hit a soft green rib going in and missed a rib going out or visa versa on a broadside shot? There is the practice of many to hit the shoulder or point of the shoulder on the way in or out for maximum (any) boolit performance. Then there is the practice of hitting the rib or slats just behind the V of the front shoulder. Both practices require different boolit/speed configurations. Game and terrain does not always present the hunter who chooses one of these practices his/her optimum conditions for their method. Hence sometimes there will be excessive meat loss and sometimes there will be excessive tracking. Enjoy those backstraps on the BBQ Goodsteel.
    I am under the impression that on 150Lb and less whitetail deer, that the ribs do not matter at all to a broadhead, or a boolit. They are soft and easily cut through with a sharp knife. I just don't think that they make that big a difference to boolit performance. It's about the same consistency as shooting through a wet piece of 3/16" balsa wood. Hitting something more substantial like a leg bone, is a different story. That's like a 1" diameter dowel rod of wet balsa wood, and has more effect.
    The meat on this deer was so tender! I cooked up one backstrap for dinner last night (had to fed four men) and the other for breakfast yesterday morning, and it was delicious. I'll share the secret recipe: equal parts of black pepper, salt, and powdered ginger.
    Tim Malcolm
    MBT custom rifles & gunsmithing
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    "He who is enslaved by the compass has freedom of the seas"

  9. #29
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    Never say never, but I agree with Goodsteel that for a rifle, for a hunting boolit, for game that you wish to eat, a hollow point is not necessary. Then again I don't think carrying 20 rounds of ammo with me on a hunt is --necessary. If you want to, Great. If you want to hollow point, Great.

    I took two does this year with a .35 cal water quenched #2 clone alloy at 1750ish fps. No expansion what so ever. Boolits hard as a rock. But with a good meplate there was a 3/4" hole from side to side and neither deer went over 40 yd.

    My opinion is obviously right and can't really be argued with, but if you have a different opinion and wish to be wrong, then just go ahead.

    Milkman

  10. #30
    Boolit Master newton's Avatar
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    Well I am on the cast boolit only hunting also. I took my first deer with some really hard, wdww and even some lino added in I think, which should be going around 2000 fps. Had to cast them hard because that's what my gun likes. .30 cal, 180 grains. Its the lee mold. Anyways, it went in just behind the shoulder and exited the same. Only took out a rib and did not look like much expansion of the boolit. But when I opened the deer up the wound channel had turned the bottom side of the lungs to mush and one liver.

    I plan on going for a neck shot this next time because I am wanting to see what it does up there and compare to the recently killed buck a friend shot with some core locks in the same caliber. I have no doubt that the effect will be the same, but I have to try it.

    Cast boolits are definitely a killer. There is a learning curve associated with them, but so far they have not let me down. Good to see pictures of the effects, helps us all learn.

  11. #31
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    Well your not going to 'eat right up to the hole" on that one Tim.
    Hell, I was there!

  12. #32
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    I use 30-1 at 1800 fps out of the 32-40 and it does very well. No bloodshot meat so far, just trim around the hole if you need to. Left about a 3 inch exit hole. I do think that a properly tuned cast boolit is better than jacketed for many purposes.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by swheeler View Post
    Well your not going to 'eat right up to the hole" on that one Tim.
    Boy, you aint just whistlin dixie!
    I'm going to blow off the rest that I made and remelt the ones I didn't load. I think about 3% antimony and 1% tin should just about do it.
    Either that, or I may dump the speed some. Cut it down to 1600-1700 aught to be about right.
    Oh well, live and learn.
    Tim Malcolm
    MBT custom rifles & gunsmithing
    www.goodsteelforum.com

    "He who is enslaved by the compass has freedom of the seas"

  14. #34
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    I think it did fine. You may have lost some meat, but it is in the freezer and not running through the woods wounded. You anchored it and it is food.
    You can miss fast & you can miss a lot, but only hits count.

  15. #35
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    Sometimes when using a powerful gun like yours when heavy bone is hit it will drive the bone out ahead of it and will leave an abnormally large exit wound. That same load broadside behind the shoulder may have performed perfectly.
    You are taking pictures of a dead deer so how bad did it fail?
    Some people live and learn but I mostly just live

  16. #36
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    Well, as I said after reading about about people eating right up to the boolit hole with cast boolits, and then seeing the results on my first cast boolit kill, "that may be true, but I didn't expect the hole to be quite so big."

    Because that 355gr WFN boolit just didn't give the groups and consistancy I desire I changed molds and re-thought the need for approaching the velocity levels 2300 - 2500fps that I was seeing.

    I have found a happy home with a 465gr WFN at 1600 - 1700fps, cast of 50/50 - WW/lead and water quenched from the mold.

    If I saw that type of meat loss, and considered it anything like normal for a cast boolit, I'd be off them for life.

    That reminds me of the mess I helped a friend with this weekend after he took a buck through the shoulders with a 45/70 gummy nose. Not quite this bad and excessive, but I won't be going with the gummy nose in this life.

    Cleary, there needs to be some BIG changes with this load or boolit!

    Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

  17. #37
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    i too use the 358 win and higher velocity [2300+] ,i have a distance handicap to overcome at times.
    but here's where we differ in our loads.
    i use the saeco 250 gr boolit,ww's + 1% tin, and 25% soft, water dropped. [over 49 grs of rl-19] theres a little [.25%] copper in the alloy too.
    if i wanted a bit more expansion i'd soften the first 1/8th inch of the nose a titch with a torch. [i don't]
    i loaned this combo to a friend recently to cull some does on a landowner predation hunt,he took three in a row off his hay stacks.
    two high shoulder bang flops, and a behind the shoulder pass through with a 40 yd trot/lay down.
    he didn't want to give back the rifle and offered me some stupid money for it [which i declined]
    it's all an educated guess,,,, till the trigger is pulled.

    this opinion brought to you by mister low-tech solution..

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by runfiverun View Post
    i too use the 358 win and higher velocity [2300+] ,i have a distance handicap to overcome at times.
    but here's where we differ in our loads.
    i use the saeco 250 gr boolit,ww's + 1% tin, and 25% soft, water dropped. [over 49 grs of rl-19] theres a little [.25%] copper in the alloy too.
    if i wanted a bit more expansion i'd soften the first 1/8th inch of the nose a titch with a torch. [i don't]
    i loaned this combo to a friend recently to cull some does on a landowner predation hunt,he took three in a row off his hay stacks.
    two high shoulder bang flops, and a behind the shoulder pass through with a 40 yd trot/lay down.
    he didn't want to give back the rifle and offered me some stupid money for it [which i declined]
    Atta boy.
    I'm sure you explained to him that he too could enjoy the benefits of cast lead?
    I just wish I could get a few more shots this year so I could find a better load. As it is, I think I'm going to be too covered over to get away from the shop again. I never realized how much time hunting takes!
    But, I guess that's the whole point.
    Tim Malcolm
    MBT custom rifles & gunsmithing
    www.goodsteelforum.com

    "He who is enslaved by the compass has freedom of the seas"

  19. #39
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    Good shooting! I like that combo.

    Looks to be good eating!

    I've had my own "issues" with the rcbs 35-200 in my 35whelen, no accuracy. I had to WQ them to get them to shoot, and not all that fast either. I'm glad you got yours shooting well with out WQ'ing them.

    I would like to wack a deer with mine too, and see how they work.
    vmthtr@charter.net is NOT my paypal addy

  20. #40
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    that is the trouble I have with cast in the same cal
    inconsistent accuracy ..........
    I can't have that I need a load I can trust to go where I aim ..all the time
    it is a very precise game we play for what works for one is not the answer for all
    all in all you did what you set out to and the is what counts
    Hit em'hard
    hit em'often

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BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
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