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Thread: I believe the cast lead rifle boolit is the most effective projectile in the world.

  1. #241
    Boolit Buddy mpkunz's Avatar
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    I use my 500 S & W with 95:5 Pb:Sn subsonic 600 grainers and a suppressor at ranges <100 yards out back of my house. I don't get near that devastation, but with head shots they go down instantly. Back in November I took a muley in the Ft. Peck area of Montana at 883 yards with a Hornady 143 grain ELD-X using my 6.5 Creedmoor. One shot, cold barrel, double lunged him. Ain't no way in the world his head would be mounted on my wall right now and his meat would be in my freezer with a cast bullet from any rifle. Later in the season I took 2 more whitetails with my Thompson Center flintlock at ~60 yards out behind the house in PA. That's a more reasonable range for cast lead. If lead was as good as jacketed, it would be still be in use by all the militaries in the world. Its a great hobby, just keep in mind the limitations and work within those bounds so your harvest is done ethically.

  2. #242
    Moderator Emeritus / Trusted loob groove dealer

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    Quote Originally Posted by mpkunz View Post
    Back in November I took a muley in the Ft. Peck area of Montana at 883 yards with a Hornady 143 grain ELD-X using my 6.5 Creedmoor.

    Its a great hobby, just keep in mind the limitations and work within those bounds so your harvest is done ethically.
    These two sentences don't belong in the same post.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  3. #243
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    Agree
    Lead Bullets Technology
    45/70 might get that done

  4. #244
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    why would you shoot an animal almost 900 yds away.
    was he watching you with binoculars?

  5. #245
    Boolit Master


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    Half a mile? Wow. Maybe I shouldn't be second guessing myself when they are only at two hundred.
    “Let us endeavor so to live that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry.”
    ― Mark Twain
    W8SOB

  6. #246
    Boolit Grand Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    The photo is gone from the very first post showing the destruction it did to the thread starter's deer. Can someone repost it or mods fix so I can see it? Thanks
    Last edited by Tripplebeards; 07-08-2018 at 02:04 PM.

  7. #247
    Boolit Grand Master Harter66's Avatar
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    I tinkered a lot to find an alloy that would hold the speed and pressures for a couple of small caliber cartridges and still expand without breaking up .
    30 cal , 200 gr 197-199 remaining .610 dia , impact speed in powdered dg clay approximately 1700 fps .
    Attachment 223384

    I have a picture of a "properly" constructed exit hole from a way down loaded 264 WM down to a fiesty 6.5×55 and I'm not crazy about the foot sized hole .

    I know that a big hole leaks .
    If a bullet expands in addition to flat point shock then more of the energy is put in the target .
    Bigger holes leak more than smaller holes .
    If a smaller caliber makes a bigger hole it's a success .

    If it wrecks more meat than you think it should slow it down or cast it harder or softer or tougher . These are the beauties of the self cast bullet over a commercial cast or jacketed or monolithic copper/brass etc . We can pick and choose shape , weight , MV , terminal proformance , and many other points .
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  8. #248
    Boolit Master

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    "know that a big hole leaks .
    If a bullet expands in addition to flat point shock then more of the energy is put in the target .
    Bigger holes leak more than smaller holes .
    If a smaller caliber makes a bigger hole it's a success .

    If it wrecks more meat than you think it should slow it down or cast it harder or softer or tougher . These are the beauties of the self cast bullet over a commercial cast or jacketed or monolithic copper/brass etc . We can pick and choose shape , weight , MV , terminal proformance , and many other points ."

    All the mental masturbation and racetrack reasoning that goes on at times on this forum, and it's just as simple as that,,,,,,,.
    More "This is what happened when I,,,,," and less "What would happen if I,,,,"

    Last of the original Group Buy Honcho's.

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  9. #249
    Cast Hunter

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    Quote Originally Posted by mpkunz View Post
    I took a muley in the Ft. Peck area of Montana at 883 yards with a Hornady 143 grain ELD-X using my 6.5 Creedmoor....just keep in mind the limitations and work within those bounds so your harvest is done ethically.
    Hornady's ballistic calculator says 880 ft lbs at that distance with a max charge. I'm guessing little or no bullet expansion. Kudos for your long range work, but I'm thinking the vast majority of hunters are taking big game much closer.
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  10. #250
    Boolit Bub Beeks's Avatar
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    DEAD THREAD...... RESURRECTED!

    Any link to the OP's photo that was the subject of all this discussion?

    I'm curious.

  11. #251
    Boolit Master Hannibal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beeks View Post
    DEAD THREAD...... RESURRECTED!

    Any link to the OP's photo that was the subject of all this discussion?

    I'm curious.
    Photobucket ate it.

  12. #252
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by runfiverun View Post
    why would you shoot an animal almost 900 yds away.
    was he watching you with binoculars?
    Why? Advanced stage of egotism.

  13. #253
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beeks View Post
    DEAD THREAD...... RESURRECTED!

    Any link to the OP's photo that was the subject of all this discussion?

    I'm curious.
    I believe that picture is long gone but I do remember when it was posted, from what I remember the front shoulders were torn to bits and much meat destroyed. I think the OP proved his point that cast is a better killer but maybe a little too much of a good thing. Regards Stephen

  14. #254
    Boolit Master


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    That is what I recall as well, OP said he should dial it down a bit for less meat destruction. But later he took his ball and bat and went home.
    I give loading advice based on my actual results in factory rifles with standard chambers, twist rates and basic accurizing.
    My goals for using cast boolits are lots of good, cheap, and reasonably accurate shooting, while avoiding overly tedious loading processes.
    The BHN Deformation Formula, and why I don't use it.
    How to find and fix sizing die eccentricity problems.
    Do you trust your casting thermometer?
    A few musings.

  15. #255
    Boolit Buddy pcmacd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamish View Post
    "know that a big hole leaks .
    If a bullet expands in addition to flat point shock then more of the energy is put in the target .
    Bigger holes leak more than smaller holes .
    If a smaller caliber makes a bigger hole it's a success .

    If it wrecks more meat than you think it should slow it down or cast it harder or softer or tougher . These are the beauties of the self cast bullet over a commercial cast or jacketed or monolithic copper/brass etc . We can pick and choose shape , weight , MV , terminal proformance , and many other points ."

    All the mental masturbation and racetrack reasoning that goes on at times on this forum, and it's just as simple as that,,,,,,,.
    YAR! Well put, sir.

  16. #256
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpkunz View Post
    I use my 500 S & W with 95:5 Pb:Sn subsonic 600 grainers and a suppressor at ranges <100 yards out back of my house. I don't get near that devastation, but with head shots they go down instantly. Back in November I took a muley in the Ft. Peck area of Montana at 883 yards with a Hornady 143 grain ELD-X using my 6.5 Creedmoor. One shot, cold barrel, double lunged him. Ain't no way in the world his head would be mounted on my wall right now and his meat would be in my freezer with a cast bullet from any rifle. Later in the season I took 2 more whitetails with my Thompson Center flintlock at ~60 yards out behind the house in PA. That's a more reasonable range for cast lead. If lead was as good as jacketed, it would be still be in use by all the militaries in the world. Its a great hobby, just keep in mind the limitations and work within those bounds so your harvest is done ethically.
    seems to me that there were longer shots than your's taken in the buffalo hunting days
    so to make in irresponsible claim that cast lead is limited to a certain range is well
    rather Limited
    Hit em'hard
    hit em'often

  17. #257
    Boolit Mold ItllKeal's Avatar
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    A head shot with a 1860Army lead round ball made for a bad day one deer season. The pure lead busted the skull so bad the buck had to be drug out by his back legs. Pure lead smashes flat on impact with bone at pistol velocity. Glad to see some old school materials eing used in modern times.

  18. #258
    Boolit Mold ItllKeal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItllKeal View Post
    A head shot with a 1860Army lead round ball made for a bad day one deer season. The pure lead busted the skull so bad the buck had to be drug out by his back legs. Pure lead smashes flat on impact with bone at pistol velocity. Glad to see some old school materials eing used in modern times.
    Nothing new under the sun. Thanks

  19. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by waksupi View Post
    These two sentences don't belong in the same post.
    Hummm I'd have to agree
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  20. #260
    Boolit Mold
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    Quote Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
    Wow! What a great thread! Thanks, goodsteel.

    I've been a bit out of the picture but am trying to get back into things, so this was a great start (although I've only waded halfway through). I only have 303's and am trying to relate what the 358 can do to what a 303 can do. I paper patch so I can drive softer alloys a little faster (I only have one rifle with a bore good enough to shoot cast seriously) but one the boolit is launched, it's the same as a plain cast.

    I am finding that stronger alloys are needed for higher velocity due to nose slump and base upset into the entry cone of the chamber resulting in a damaged boolit. I did a test with alloy strength and found a balance between enough upset and not enough. Trouble is, I had to use shotgun powder in the test to get a low enough velocity to capture the boolit intact.

    Attachment 73296

    See how the second boolit mid-section upset into the grooves? Even the knurling has been ironed out right up to the ogive. The knurling is there to grip the patch - there is no knurling in the middle because the file doesn't reach there as the boolit changes diameter there. I have a soft alloy in which the nose upset into the bore in front of the patch.

    How would that flat nose perform on deer?
    I took a buck with my P1914, .303 British. I used a hard cast 205 grain gas-check bullet from a Lyman .314299 mold, running about 2,000 fps. From past experience hunting chucks in my youth. I discover that a full jacket bullet under 100 yards would literally explode a chuck. I use to think it was the bullets energy that did the trick. Since I’ve come to think it is the unstable wobble of the bullet before it straightens up at 100 yds. After a 100 yd I was back to taking head shots on chucks. The buck I shot was under 100 yds and I was in my tree platform so I sighted on the point of the shoulder. The bullet struck about 1 1/2" back of the joint. It pierced the scapula and seem to have rotated to blow an inch square hole through a rib and exited out the floor of the rib cage. When I did the field dressing, I open up the chest cavity it was filled with small bits and pieces of lung floating in blood. The heart was still pretty well intact but was missing part of a ventricle.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check