So you recommend upping the tin % to 1.0?Originally Posted by badgeredd
I can do that.
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So you recommend upping the tin % to 1.0?
I can do that.
Sheep Dog
Minutman
Boyscout
Contructionist
Patriot
I think he means to up the Sb to 1.5% making it equal to the tin and Cu.
Yuiop
Last edited by badgeredd; 06-23-2014 at 05:21 PM.
Charter member Michigan liars club!
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in Government." -- Thomas Jefferson
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What alloys do you have on hand?...I did not pay too good of attention the other day...my bad.
That's why I'm glad you guys are working on it.
I found this pic on expansion tests I did on my first copper alloy
These were fired into soft fine sand at various velocities.
Fired into rubber grinds is probably closer to what happens in flesh (muscle really).
Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)
''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''
OK 303 you did it now. What was the exact alloys and launch speeds????????........I am pretty sure the alloy I am using would not mushroom quite like that....but you have whet my appetite for more info on exactly what ya had going on there.
I have no idea of launch speed. Not that high, probably around 1500fps maybe less. They're heavy, that last one was 214gr (and almost still is). The alloy is an unknown but it did have copper in it - I dissolved it in. Not a lot, maybe 0.15%. I did work it out but have lost that data. It had COWW, and some lino plus a lot of other lead and a fair amount of tin. It was not hard, but aged within hours.
Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)
''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''
Imhoidm
Last edited by badgeredd; 06-23-2014 at 05:22 PM.
Charter member Michigan liars club!
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in Government." -- Thomas Jefferson
"Consider the clown(s) just one of God's little nettles in the woods, don't let it detract from the beauty. Sooner or latter you are going to run into the nettles regardless of how careful you are."
Beware of man who types much, but says nothing.
I rendered some Super Tough ingots down into usable form (various molds ranging from 100grs. to 500grs.) last weekend.
You are going to find Super Tough to be the most interesting alloy that you have ever poured!
If it can be swagged into a high BC bullet then copper plated like Speer does with their "Deep Curl" bullet, then that bullet will own the long range target shooting game.
Last edited by Nrut; 02-15-2013 at 01:37 PM.
First batch will be for experimentation only. I don't have a good hunting bullet for the 30 cals yet. I plan on casting a few with the MP 180 sil mold that I just got to see where these can be pushed velocity wise and still maintain accuracy.
The eventual goal is to convert that mauser I picked up recently to 35 Whelen and cast up some BRP 220 grain hunting bullets for it. But until that happens all testing will be run through the 308 and 30-06.
I'm hoping that by first mixing up the base alloy one can then dissolve the correct amount of copper. I think it does work but one may need to raise the temperature above casting temp to get enough in. I did manage to get enough copper in that I found a need to cut it back with lead to get it back to a reasonable casting temperature. I'm going to try dissolving copper into my current alloy to see what happens. At least if it does dissolve, I will be able to weigh how much went in.
Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)
''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''
Lots of COWW, quite a bit of soft range lead that you said must have a small amount of Sb in it since it had a slight "ring" when dropped and some stick on WW that I haven't melted down yet.
Edd, I'm a little confused now about the alloy balancing. Should the Cu and Sn equal the Sb or should it be Cu and Sb equal the Sn?
Dontno
Last edited by badgeredd; 06-23-2014 at 05:24 PM.
Charter member Michigan liars club!
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in Government." -- Thomas Jefferson
"Consider the clown(s) just one of God's little nettles in the woods, don't let it detract from the beauty. Sooner or latter you are going to run into the nettles regardless of how careful you are."
Beware of man who types much, but says nothing.
It's never too late for another profession Edd......I will buy YOUR books if YOU pay YOUR tuition.
Edd sometimes I wonder if the "smart" ones really know?
Looking at your statement above, since we are after a relationship here, seems like the
balance you suggested might be correct. Since the Sn interacts with both the Sb and the Cu,
seems "logical" that would be the way to go. No knowledge here, it just "looks right on paper" to me
BTW, I think I've decided on just buying some of the copper laden babbit from rotometals when I get a few bucks ahead
rather than playing mad scientist at home. I have a feeling that I'll get it right by accident one time, and never be able to replicate it,
kinda like my cooking skills
One more thought to run by you. Everything (which admittedly is very little) that I've read describes the copper in copper/lead alloys as a lattice or larger structure in the alloy. Wouldn't you think that the small amount of copper that we are adding would be like adding a little rebar to cement? And if that is correct wouldn't you want your Sb and Sn balanced with each other and the copper considered as just an added re enforcement of the targeted alloy composition?
Just thinking out loud here, let me know if I'm way off the mark on this.
Allgone
Last edited by badgeredd; 06-23-2014 at 05:25 PM.
Charter member Michigan liars club!
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in Government." -- Thomas Jefferson
"Consider the clown(s) just one of God's little nettles in the woods, don't let it detract from the beauty. Sooner or latter you are going to run into the nettles regardless of how careful you are."
Beware of man who types much, but says nothing.
Fghjm
Last edited by badgeredd; 06-23-2014 at 05:26 PM.
Charter member Michigan liars club!
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in Government." -- Thomas Jefferson
"Consider the clown(s) just one of God's little nettles in the woods, don't let it detract from the beauty. Sooner or latter you are going to run into the nettles regardless of how careful you are."
Beware of man who types much, but says nothing.
vbncx
Last edited by badgeredd; 06-23-2014 at 05:27 PM.
Charter member Michigan liars club!
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in Government." -- Thomas Jefferson
"Consider the clown(s) just one of God's little nettles in the woods, don't let it detract from the beauty. Sooner or latter you are going to run into the nettles regardless of how careful you are."
Beware of man who types much, but says nothing.
One thing I do know is you never ever want more Sn in your alloy than you've Sb.
Less Sn than Sb is no big deal. So when we start to add Cu I can’t think of a down side to keeping the total of Sn plus Cu below or equal to total Sb level. Since I've never heard of a down side to excess Sb levels in an alloy. Other than brittleness.
I’ve had some fine results with an alloy of 4% Sb 3 ½ % Sn. with the Sn being from lead free solder. . Which contains .5% Cu. IIRC. (Standard lead free solder.) This alloy would punch through quite a bit of boiler plate. In a 9mm hand gun it punches through 5/16th inch 1018 hot roll. AKA far more than any tire rim. Better than any $1 Speer Gold dot. FBI ***.
After you get Sn bonded with Sb it is no longer a fragile alloy. IMO any excess Sn will only make slippage easier. In short your boolit will come apart freely. Grease between the molecule structure.
IBC
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