Reloading EverythingLee PrecisionRotoMetals2Load Data
WidenersMidSouth Shooters SupplyTitan ReloadingInline Fabrication
Repackbox
Page 7 of 28 FirstFirst 1234567891011121314151617 ... LastLast
Results 121 to 140 of 544

Thread: High Copper Alloys- Lets discuss this further

  1. #121
    Banned 45 2.1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Little Egypt, Part of the political fifedom of Chicago
    Posts
    7,099
    Quote Originally Posted by 357maximum View Post
    It is a special use alloy that You yourself have said is not worth much.
    I said it doesn't expand, it makes a good FMJ in normal molds and it needs a flat nose mold like Edd was running a GB for to hunt with. Now you agree its a special use alloy......finally. It would be really nice if you could quote what I actually said instead of what you think I said........................

  2. #122
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    The Island of Misfit Toys
    Posts
    5,951
    Always has been a special use alloy, it was never meant to be the alloy to make all other alloys obsolete. One alloy is never ever ever gonna cover the full spectrum of what we use cast for.... not very practical to even think that. Cast boolits simply cover too much ground to get a LORD OF THE LEAD ALLOY. An alloy that is getting hit with 10-16,000 psi has to differ from a alloy getting hit by 50,000 psi, you know that as well as anyone. And YES it does expand....not like pure lead obviously ,but it expands at it's intended impact velocities without disentegrating like say a lino boolit would.

    My applications for pure lead have not changed, my applications for soft lead have not changed, my applications for good ol 50/50 have not changed. What has changed is my ability to go faster extremely accurately on a consistent basis using the copper enhanced babbit + 50/50 or 60/40 in some of my full throttle applications. This alloy is not really all that much different from lube as alot of lubes will do most of what a caster needs, but at some point a guy requires "DIFFERENT and SUBSTANTIALLY MORE BETTER" when he is pushing the envelope with cast.

    I would not haul cargo with a Mazeratti and would not take my pickup truck out on the Autobon either. I apologize if I never know what you are saying, I always mess up when I am reading Egyptian and Greek hyroglyphs too. Your super secret squirrel methods make it really hard for someone other than the government drones to read your thoughts.


    have a great day Bobber,
    Mike

  3. #123
    Boolit Master




    badgeredd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    there, not here
    Posts
    2,306
    Mnbvc
    Last edited by badgeredd; 06-23-2014 at 05:12 PM.
    Charter member Michigan liars club!

    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in Government." -- Thomas Jefferson

    "Consider the clown(s) just one of God's little nettles in the woods, don't let it detract from the beauty. Sooner or latter you are going to run into the nettles regardless of how careful you are."

    Beware of man who types much, but says nothing.

  4. #124
    Banned 45 2.1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Little Egypt, Part of the political fifedom of Chicago
    Posts
    7,099
    Quote Originally Posted by badgeredd View Post
    I also asked you if you had tried the babbit. Although you did not say no, you left the impression that your experiences in the 80s showed you that it wasn't of use to you. Then I see a post that says you have boolits aged for 7 months...which is it? Edd
    Lets see.... trying the babbit. That would usually mean shooting it from boolits you cast into groups. I don't really think beating a boolit cast from it into a disk or shooting some three day old stuff down the tube to see if it stays clean qualifies as trying it. I never shot those boolits into groups until last Saturday out of a couple 223s a friend brought over to try. No difference in accuracy between normal 50/50 WD and the copper alloy from your calculator runs as far as cleanliness or accuracy. Sparkling clean bores in both rifles with all loads tried..... and that was with some very warm flatter primer loads. What i'm searching for is a full 5.56mm military duplication load for the 62 gr. loading with at least equal accuracy. 2,400 fps has worked, but anything over 2700 fps hasn't been up to snuff...... which is still a long way from 3,000+ fps. I don't think the alloy is the problem in that equation, something else is. Whether it works or not is one of those things that make experimenting fun.

  5. #125
    Boolit Master
    Jailer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Ithaca, MI
    Posts
    1,847
    Well I was going to try Mikes method of adding copper to this hunk of babbit I have here but I chickened out.

    I needed to pick up a ladle so I placed my order with Rotometals and threw 5 lbs of supertough on the order so I can try out this copper rich alloy in my 308. Might bring the 30-06 into this one as well since it's a more accurate gun than the 308 and might show better results.

    Order should be delivered this week so hopefully this weekend I'll get to mixing up my witches brew.

  6. #126
    Boolit Master




    badgeredd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    there, not here
    Posts
    2,306
    Jhgfd
    Last edited by badgeredd; 06-23-2014 at 05:13 PM.
    Charter member Michigan liars club!

    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in Government." -- Thomas Jefferson

    "Consider the clown(s) just one of God's little nettles in the woods, don't let it detract from the beauty. Sooner or latter you are going to run into the nettles regardless of how careful you are."

    Beware of man who types much, but says nothing.

  7. #127
    Boolit Master




    badgeredd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    there, not here
    Posts
    2,306
    Thmko
    Last edited by badgeredd; 06-23-2014 at 05:15 PM. Reason: added post script
    Charter member Michigan liars club!

    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in Government." -- Thomas Jefferson

    "Consider the clown(s) just one of God's little nettles in the woods, don't let it detract from the beauty. Sooner or latter you are going to run into the nettles regardless of how careful you are."

    Beware of man who types much, but says nothing.

  8. #128
    Banned 45 2.1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Little Egypt, Part of the political fifedom of Chicago
    Posts
    7,099
    Quote Originally Posted by badgeredd View Post
    What alloy did you use Bob? Did you water drop or heat treat? What was the Bhn of the alloy? I could have had the percentages wrong as I said earlier because I am not sure which balancing method is correct. Also I believe there is a fundamental problem with knowing the make-up of COWW lead. My guess is that we are not going to be able to get things perfectly precise unless we use certified metals...which I for one can't afford. I agrre with Mike that we can produce alloys that will be "reasonably" repeatable.

    Edd

    P.S. It just occured to me that I may have given you a fairly low antimonial mix in the alloys I gave you. If that is so, I apologize for that error.
    Edd-
    We sat at your computer and used your alloy calculator. I copied two of the "formulas" directly from what it said for the alloy constituents I had. I water dropped them and tested basic hardness with a rigged up drop hammer for some time to see if and when they got harder...... my hardness tester doesn't like the boolit I used as the meplat is very close to the indenter size and doesn't do well testing them. Whats left is setting in two different iron pots.

    Here is what I have written down on the alloys:

    Alloy#1
    8# COWW + 5/8# Monotype + 1/4# no. 2 babbit
    Given calculator % = 92.96% Pb, 3.40% Tin, 3.28% Antimony, 0.10% Copper, 0.23% Arsenic

    Alloy#2
    11.5# COWW + 4# Pb + 1/2# of no. 2 babbit
    Given calculator % = 3.21% Antimony, 3.33% Tin, 0.18% Arsenic, 92.95% Pb, 0.11% Copper

    Note that I mentioned these %'s did not add up to 100% when we were looking at the numbers on the screen.
    Last edited by 45 2.1; 02-13-2013 at 07:38 PM.

  9. #129
    Boolit Master




    badgeredd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    there, not here
    Posts
    2,306
    Deleted2
    Last edited by badgeredd; 06-23-2014 at 05:16 PM.
    Charter member Michigan liars club!

    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in Government." -- Thomas Jefferson

    "Consider the clown(s) just one of God's little nettles in the woods, don't let it detract from the beauty. Sooner or latter you are going to run into the nettles regardless of how careful you are."

    Beware of man who types much, but says nothing.

  10. #130
    Banned 45 2.1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Little Egypt, Part of the political fifedom of Chicago
    Posts
    7,099
    Quote Originally Posted by badgeredd View Post
    Yes I recall that conversation, but I didn't record the alloys. I also recall telling you that I was aware the percentages didn't total exactly 100%. Knowing what we know about other metals being in scrap COWW, I seriously doubt that the 0.22% in alloy #2 or the 0.03% in alloy 1 make any significant difference. Would you still concur?

    So I take it the loads were not chronographed and no loads between 2400 fps and 2700 fps were fired. Yes?

    Edd
    Statistically probably.... actually... who knows. Loads weren't chrono'd, but two were above 2300 fps and the last one was probably above 2700 fps. Not a lot of data exists at those levels with non canister powder for lead, just jacketed data.

  11. #131
    Boolit Master




    badgeredd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    there, not here
    Posts
    2,306
    Nvxsf
    Last edited by badgeredd; 06-23-2014 at 05:17 PM.
    Charter member Michigan liars club!

    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in Government." -- Thomas Jefferson

    "Consider the clown(s) just one of God's little nettles in the woods, don't let it detract from the beauty. Sooner or latter you are going to run into the nettles regardless of how careful you are."

    Beware of man who types much, but says nothing.

  12. #132
    Boolit Master
    Jailer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Ithaca, MI
    Posts
    1,847
    Quote Originally Posted by badgeredd View Post
    Glad to hear it Ty. Maybe we all can have it figured out by the time for the get-together. You'll be invited to SW Michigan along with that guy from Adrian, by the way. Start planning.

    Edd
    I look forward to it, thanks.

    I'm not nearly as experienced or bright as you guys when it comes to this stuff, but I am a good study. I'll try to keep good notes on what I'm doing so hopefully I'll have something to contribute.

    I just wish I knew the makeup of this soft lead I have that I recovered from commercial jacketed pistol bullets. Melt temp and coloring when heated points to something very close to pure lead but Mike's trained ear says it has a bit of a Sb ring to it when you drop the ingots. I've been treating it as pure lead for my 50/50 water dropped stuff.

  13. #133
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    9,078
    As for me, I'm not after high velocity, just reasonable velocity but with a boolit that expands well yet holds together too. Controlled expansion is good too. All this translates into enough hardness to maintain boolit base integrity for accuracy and enough malleability to expand easily. That's where I looked at copper. From what I understand, it doesn't take that much copper to toughen the alloy and it seems that other grain refiners add to the effect.

    So keep up the work. I wish I could contribute but right now I'm relying on you guys to blaze the trail.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  14. #134
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    The Island of Misfit Toys
    Posts
    5,951
    303Guy

    Depending on what YOU mean by REASONABLE.....you may well be served better by plain old waterdropped 50/50 ww/pure+ a splash of tin.

    I have a particular goal on a particular platform I want with these C.E (copper enhanced )alloys ...I am still waiting on realizing my goal. I want more than I will likely get, but who knows till one tries.

  15. #135
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    The Island of Misfit Toys
    Posts
    5,951
    I use jacketed rifle data for cast all the time. I normally get a touch less pressure and about 75-100 bonus feets per second. As long as your boolit is not too big and putting side pressure on the neck and you are not dangling your feet further than normal into the boiler room of the case....no issues for me yet.

  16. #136
    Boolit Master




    badgeredd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    there, not here
    Posts
    2,306
    Ijnuh
    Last edited by badgeredd; 06-23-2014 at 05:19 PM.
    Charter member Michigan liars club!

    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in Government." -- Thomas Jefferson

    "Consider the clown(s) just one of God's little nettles in the woods, don't let it detract from the beauty. Sooner or latter you are going to run into the nettles regardless of how careful you are."

    Beware of man who types much, but says nothing.

  17. #137
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    The Island of Misfit Toys
    Posts
    5,951
    At 2400-2500FPS and faster nose profile really seems to matter less than at "normal" cast speeds. I have literally gutted/processed many many TONS of 120-180 lb (dressed weight) whitetail deer shot with alot of different things and both those deer I shot last fall with the 7THOR at 2512fps launch speed showed signs of the hydraulic shockwave you see with a well balanced/constructed jacketed round, but there was zero sign of boolit breakup like one often sees with say a 130grain .270 j-word "bomb". I could not find either boolit to prove it, but the signs point to a boolit that kept their integrity and neither one showed signs of "sploding" or "breakup". I am 100% sure a little less meplate on 6mm,7mm and bigger boolits would do no harm at the speeds this alloy is capable of when it all falls into place. I also have suspicion that as one approaches 3 to 3.4K and above with this alloy, meplate may not matter at all, it may not even be desirable for edible critters......still working on proving that one out though.

    One step at a time and my largest test medium available is a 200lb live weight whitetail. What I really need is another chance to put a sick/injured holstein down. Them "calls" really help prove things/theories out, but they come along so rarely anymore in this day of modern farming/veterinary practices. But if you put em through good deer and they fall down without excessive trauma...I guess it works eh?

  18. #138
    Boolit Master
    Jailer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Ithaca, MI
    Posts
    1,847
    Well my package from Rotometals showed up today so I'm ready to go. What percentages of each should I be shooting for when I mix this stuff up?

  19. #139
    Boolit Buddy olaf455's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Danbury, WI
    Posts
    164
    I cannot wait to get started playing with this alloy. I am planning to add 2 percent zinc to pure lead and then convert the zink to copper.
    As it is nearly impossible for me to get wheel weights here, I will mix Lino type and pure lead to bring the antimony level down to approximately 2 percent, and add approximately 1 percent tin. Then I will mix these 2 alloys together 50/50.
    The resulting alloy should be approximately 1 percent copper 1 percent antimony .5 percent tin and the rest pure lead.

    Gunna see how these perform and how fast they will go accurately, and go from there.
    Sheep Dog
    Minutman
    Boyscout
    Contructionist
    Patriot

  20. #140
    Boolit Master




    badgeredd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    there, not here
    Posts
    2,306
    Phoot
    Last edited by badgeredd; 06-23-2014 at 05:20 PM.
    Charter member Michigan liars club!

    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in Government." -- Thomas Jefferson

    "Consider the clown(s) just one of God's little nettles in the woods, don't let it detract from the beauty. Sooner or latter you are going to run into the nettles regardless of how careful you are."

    Beware of man who types much, but says nothing.

Page 7 of 28 FirstFirst 1234567891011121314151617 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check