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Thread: High Copper Alloys- Lets discuss this further

  1. #201
    Boolit Master
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    Boy this alloy sure does behave quite a bit differently than anything I've worked with so far. Do you guys get it wanting to stay near the slush phase at the top of the melt where it's exposed to the air?

    I just got some mixed up with what I had in ingot form and this is what I ended up with. Haven't cast anything yet, it's getting late and I have to work tomorrow so casting will have to wait until I have more time.


  2. #202
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    I was just on Rotometals web site. There SUPERTOUGH alloy is sold in ingot size only. Does someone know how much there ingots weigh? Kind of pricey at 69$ an ingot.
    I can see you only use .3 lbs per 8+ lb batch.
    I just went back and checked. Ingots are 3.5 - 4 lbs. At that rate. An ingot should make about 12 batchas at 8 lbs each.

  3. #203
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    The supertough ingots I got were 2.5lbs each.

  4. #204
    Boolit Master bearcove's Avatar
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    Dang I thought the WW's were killing them dead enough.

    I'm getting a head ache but if this Alloying will field dress them ??

    All I use is Solder thats lead free it is .4% copper to richen my WWs
    I'm just the welder, go ask him>

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by kbstenberg View Post
    I was just on Rotometals web site. There SUPERTOUGH alloy is sold in ingot size only. Does someone know how much there ingots weigh? Kind of pricey at 69$ an ingot.
    I can see you only use .3 lbs per 8+ lb batch.
    I just went back and checked. Ingots are 3.5 - 4 lbs. At that rate. An ingot should make about 12 batchas at 8 lbs each.
    I just ordered by the pound myself..
    Ended up with several ingots and a part of an ingot..

  6. #206
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    Last edited by badgeredd; 06-23-2014 at 05:43 PM.
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  7. #207
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    Last edited by badgeredd; 06-23-2014 at 05:44 PM.
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  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by badgeredd View Post
    clipped

    Note the highlighted sentence. Several things have been mentioned in my reading yesterday that influence intermetallic compounds, including but not limited to heat. SO...I also believe that our alloy temperature will affect our end results. IMHO, I think some of us are trying to over-simplify what is going on and some are over-complicating it.

    As stated before, I have found that with my Lee Dripomatic, an alloy tempertature of around 725 degrees gives me the best boolits. YMMV!!!

    Edd
    Your heat(temp of melt) and cooling rates will probably affect the alloy a LOT.
    I'm just the welder, go ask him>

  9. #209
    Boolit Master bearcove's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by badgeredd View Post
    If it ain't broke...don't fix it. This is a specialized alloy for HIGH pressure loads primarily. If you are happy with what you're getting, why change?

    Edd

    Bearcove, I re-read this post and I don't like the way the answer seems a bit curt. I apologize if you find it the same.
    No worries I was joking around and take your response in good spirit. I've been trying to simplify things and you are expanding on it.Keep it up!

    Rod
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  10. #210
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    I found an article on one that discussed how pour temp changed which intermettallic compounds prevailed. I think that is a bit what Edd was hitting on. The article mentioned 400, 500, and 600 degrees C. We don't usually go nearly as high as 600 C.
    What it didn't mention was whether or not those intermettalics changed over time. Bet they do.

    Could all of this be the reason Mike found his bullets changing slowly over time?

    Like I said earlier, I am not as concerned with why something works as much as I am with knowing what to do to get consistent results. The why can be figured out later.

    I think Edd is on the right path when he mentioned trying different ratios and testing. Then we have an idea what results to expect and we can have the alloy analyzed to get a better handle on what it needs to be.

  11. #211
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    Last edited by badgeredd; 06-23-2014 at 05:45 PM.

  12. #212
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    Sounds like you're understanding why you should quench WW boolits

    Metalurgy is cool on the surface, but...
    I'm just the welder, go ask him>

  13. #213
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    Last edited by badgeredd; 06-23-2014 at 05:46 PM.
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  14. #214
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    A long time ago I read and reported here somewhere that lead dissolves 0.16% copper at its melting point and more at higher temperatures. There's a term for that which I've forgotten now. Anyway, my point is understanding what is going on will help determine what needs to be done and what can be done. At least, those who can get their heads around it can determine these things.

    In my early days I found an alloy and a casting method that produced two hardness boolits with the front half being softer. It was too slow for production but OK for making hunting boolits. Now if we could understand what made it happen we could repeat it and find a faster way of casting them. I do happen to have a sample somewhere so the alloy can be analysed. I don't remember if that was a copper alloy. I mean they came out the mold half hard half softish.
    Last edited by 303Guy; 07-02-2015 at 03:07 AM.
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  15. #215
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    Last edited by badgeredd; 06-23-2014 at 05:48 PM. Reason: corrected statement

  16. #216
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    Could the term be eutectic you're looking for?
    That's it. Thanks. So, raising the temperature increases the solubility but does not cause a problem on solidifying? Anyway, I went for the eutectic solubility which doesn't sound much, but ..... it makes a big difference. I wish I knew what other constituents I had.
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  17. #217
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    Last edited by badgeredd; 06-23-2014 at 05:49 PM.

  18. #218
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    Last edited by badgeredd; 06-23-2014 at 05:50 PM.

  19. #219
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    well finally a part that I can contribute to - in a way.
    I'm not a metallurgist, but I was and engine machinist/ builder for many years.
    Eutectic is the word. Add in Hypo- as in hypo-eutectic is when a element is added to a base metal below the precipitation point.
    Eutectic is at maximum solubility, and hyper-eutectic is when you add more than the base metal can take.
    This is how piston aluminum is alloyed with silicon for added strength and durability. A lot of pistons now are hyper-eutectic, and
    what this does is floods the surface of the piston with silicon particles upon cooling. This promotes durability, and size stability resulting in tighter clearances,
    which is why on most modern engines,the pistons will measure at near factory sizing on a tear down, but the block will be worn out.
    I suspect we are going to find that with either a eutectic or hyper-eutectic lead alloy with copper, we will find a sweet spot if we mess around long enough.
    Maybe why the other elements in our alloys show on the surface of the boolit, if over done.
    One other question, doesn't arsenic promote stability in the alloy as far as hardness and size stability? If so, maybe we need to look at that
    as a stabilizer as well?

  20. #220
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    somebody messing with the springs and whizzers? forums acting very strange tonight :0

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