High Copper Alloys- Lets discuss this further

[assasinator]

new to casting boolits. just cast some nice ones. did a lot of reading first.

melted:
2 pounds of kester 60/40 heated to 750 f before adding the roto metals
1 pound of rotometals no3 super tough babitt
1 pound of linotype
4 pounds of wheel weights

melted them in that order. heated to 800 and fluxed. casted at 760 degrees.

NOE aluminum 4 boolit mold at 340 degrees carboned.

used half of the alloy as boolits the rest is an ingot till its tested for hardness and shot. can mark it with thumbnail but not dig in.


boolit mold is 280 grain actual weight of boolits is 15 grams/227 grains.

[assasinator]

BTW all of the tin is not for hardness, but rather weight. i wanted about 70 percent normal weight. a long boolit has a better BC than a short one with the same weight.

im using an 1:12 17" encore pistol in 350 remington magnum with .500" freebore. COL over 3" is acceptable. 358365 mold is what i used.

[CPL Lou]

I'm curious, would adding 2% super tough to wheel weights be an acceptable alloy and what would the resulting alloy be like ?
I'm looking for an alloy that will work well in my 30-06.
Thanks in advance to anyone willing to help me figure this out !

CPL Lou

[badgeredd]

IMHO, I'd say if you want to take full advantage of the Super Tough, you'll need a more balanced alloy, ala Lyman #2. My figures show you'd be a lot closer to a balanced alloy using 5 oz. Super Tough per 10 pounds COWW. Depending on what you feel you need for antimony content, you may want to add in a pound of pure lead. my experience to date has shown me that about 2 1/2% antimony seems to be a better all around alloy, definitely no higher than 3% using the babbit and figuring the COWW at about 2 1/2% antimony. Opinions vary as to the antimony content of COWW, so I personally feel comfortable using a 2 1/2% Sb figure in my figures. Again, my experience is one is better figuring antimony a bit high in the alloy as compared to what it really is rather than way too low for what it really is. Way too much tin or antimony will have a detrimental effect on the alloy and bullet performance.

Notice...I didn't use a percentage figure for the babbit addition. I do use an alloy calculator similar to bumpo's which IMHO is a better approach to being able to have repeatable results in figuring ones alloy.

Often one see's alloys of 50/50 + a percentage, I honestly think that is a bad approach to trying to come up with a REPEATABLE alloy. YMMV.

My opinion....

Edd

[CPL Lou]

Thanks Edd, I'll try that combination.
10 lbs COWW, 1lb pure and 5ozs Super Tough.
I thank you for helping me out.

CPL Lou

[assasinator]

haven't been here in a little bit.

my concern was alloying with enough tin to keep the copper dissolved without need such a high temperature. then adding lead for the final weight.

im working loads for the gun right now. the copper boolits are next on the list to shoot.

im going to use AA5744 in reduced loads for first shots. then 4227 a little hotter, then 4198, then 4064 if the boolits shoot ok as I add pressure.

I agree a lower amount of supertough is all that's Is needed. I went extreme to see how it shoots and creep toward conventional if its not working.

[Slide1285]

Hi all! New member here. I joined because I have stumbled across a few threads like this one and am in need of information.

I recently have come into access of a nearly unlimited amount of range scrap. Most of it is copper jacketed. What I'm trying to do is find an economical way to make this into a useable alloy.

A few things I've noticed so far...

About half of the copper jackets going into the pot haven't come out again. Also, the lead has a nice purple sheen across the surface if allowed to rest for more than a few seconds.

I have been reading threads like this one and only found this thread today and am still trying to catch up. My idea is to hopefully get this lead to pour well and be strong enough to shoot out of a 300 BLK sub sonic and kill a hog.

On a side note, has anyone tried aluminum? On a hunch I threw a soda can tab (supposedly pure) into the pot and it melted and dissolved in moments. On that line of thought, if anyone has access to T3 or T6 aluminum perhaps it would give positive results. That aluminum alloy has excellent heat treating characteristics (from personal experience) and may impart some of that into the lead alloy and with a water drop may be useful. Thoughts?

-Slide

[62chevy]

On a side note, has anyone tried aluminum? On a hunch I threw a soda can tab (supposedly pure) into the pot and it melted and dissolved in moments. On that line of thought, if anyone has access to T3 or T6 aluminum perhaps it would give positive results. That aluminum alloy has excellent heat treating characteristics (from personal experience) and may impart some of that into the lead alloy and with a water drop may be useful. Thoughts?

-Slide

Wow that is hot and might explain the purple you are seeing.

[Slide1285]

Yeah, it was pretty hot. Hotter than i usually cast WW's out of the Lee 20# pot. Usually 5-6 on the dial.

[303Guy]

About half of the copper jackets going into the pot haven't come out again.

That's a bit unusual. The only way I know of to mix copper into lead is by first tinning it. It then slowly dissolves.

[varminter66]

Uh oh.... I had some boolits with GC that were on crooked. I put them into the Lyman #2 melt, to recycle... I wonder how much copper stayed in without me knowing it? I didn't count the GCs that came out in the flux.... never thought of it.

[MostlyOnThePaper]

99% chance that the purple color you are seeing is from it being pure, or nearly enough pure, lead.

[GabbyM]

About half of the copper jackets going into the pot haven't come out again.

That's a bit unusual. The only way I know of to mix copper into lead is by first tinning it. It then slowly dissolves.

Lots of electro plated bullets out there. Even some Winchester fmj's. Wondering if those are the ones that disappear in the pot.

[berksglh]

I've been skimming this thread since Dr Owl Creek hinted the idea of coper enriched alloy. Shooting NOE 72g cast for my AR in 223 with good results so far, but would like to be able to get more out of it.

Im pretty resourceful and think outside the box, and found an easy way to add copper to my current mix.

I melted just over 9 Lbs of my lead into a stainless steel jar i have for smelting, then let it cool a bit.

Stripped 10 grams of #14 solid copper wire, then used it like a filler rod and TIG welded it into the lead and remelted and stirred the top. Then put it back on the flame to remelt and flux and pour as ingots.

If i figured correctly, it should give me about 0.24% Cu in my alloy.

Not sure what the saturation point if any of adding copper this way would be? But its how I did it with the tools and knowledge I had on hand.

[MostlyOnThePaper]

I think you are off to a good start.

[popper]

Shot the 308 AR this morning. Old boolits I cast ~ a yr ago, ~ 1% Cu, 3.5% Sb, 0% Sn 0.25% As. Compared with only ~0.3% Cu. 170 gr pushed ~2600 fps, ESPC'd. 1% wins. Going for 2% next. 6# 4% Sb, 0.14# Sn, 4800 gr CuSO4, 1.5# shot.
Oh, 39 gr. of Lvr worked pretty well too.

[1johnlb]

Shot the 308 AR this morning. Old boolits I cast ~ a yr ago, ~ 1% Cu, 3.5% Sb, 0% Sn 0.25% As. Compared with only ~0.3% Cu. 170 gr pushed ~2600 fps, ESPC'd. 1% wins. Going for 2% next. 6# 4% Sb, 0.14# Sn, 4800 gr CuSO4, 1.5# shot.
Oh, 39 gr. of Lvr worked pretty well too.

Popper,
What's the purpose for ageing for a year? Is it something to do with the boolit growing or for hardening?

Your shooting a 1 in 10 twist?

The leverevolution has definitely been a great powder in everything I've tried it in and is really shining in my 22-250

[WBG]

berksglh, I am impressed with your resourcefulness. TIG welding copper into the mix! Very clever. I am new to this hobby and used the "tin+ copper sulphate " method that members here were good enough to show me. I have never heard of your TIG method. I am going to try that next time.
Thanks for sharing it. Brian

[bstone5]

Was the copper actually melted into the lead with a TIG torch, I am little bit lost here on how the copper was melted into the lead block.

[popper]

Yes, 1:10 24" 308. Just had a bunch cast & coated sitting around, no reason for aging. Did some at 0.3% to compare, just getting around to loading them. First try with Lvr in 308, usually use it for 30/30.