Alliant Steel

[sandman228]

$50 per jug and no Haz-Mat? What are you waiting for? I don't know what "new old stock" is supposed to mean but if you start with Herco data, I don't think you'll get into trouble. Where are you located?

MJ

its at a small gun shop in Duncansville pa, new old stock well they were open before under a different name and had to close and file bankrupsy because of the actions of a couple bad employees doing illegal things then reopened under a new name a year or so later and the powder is from the 1st shop and still around at the new shop . so its new but its been around a long time so its old stock .

[Marlin Junky]

its at a small gun shop in Duncansville pa, new old stock well they were open before under a different name and had to close and file bankrupsy because of the actions of a couple bad employees doing illegal things then reopened under a new name a year or so later and the powder is from the 1st shop and still around at the new shop . so its new but its been around a long time so its old stock .

Well I guess I'm not going to be able to swap one of your jugs for one of my newly manufactured lots and since I don't know when your lot was manufactured, I guess I'll stand by my earlier recommendation of initially treating it like Herco (or 800-X as R5R indicated).

Have fun and report back.

MJ

[Marlin Junky]

Just an update...

I substituted 16.4 grains of Steel for my earlier charge weight of 17.0 grains and got 1729 fps for 10 rounds with a std.dev. of 8.6. It looks like I was really hitting the wall with 17.5 grains of Steel since nearly one additional grain from 16.4 only yielded 40 some fps... is this stuff repackaged Herco?

Unfortunately, 22 grains of WC-820 (don't recall the lot # off hand but I think it starts with a 7 and the powder is a dead ringer for AA#9) mopped the floor with Steel in the accuracy department. The 820 was doing a tad over 1800 fps and plopped 4 in one hole at 75 yards with a fifth that appeared to be a lube purge flyer by the looks of the bore condition. All boolits during the range session registered BHN 17-18 but I'm loosing confidence in my aging Lee hardness tester. I've been lubing the crimp groove just to make sure the whole shank ends up <= .3605" but I'll limit the lube to inside the case neck from now on.

I don't think Steel is a candidate for an accuracy load with this boolit/alloy combination until the pressure is backed off a bit (perhaps closer to 1600 fps). I've got about 50 boolits remaining from the last casting session that I may HT at 450F tonight and try 16.5 grains of Steel in a couple weeks.

MJ

[brotherdarrell]

I finally got my hinky chrono replaced.

The following is a three way comparison between Alliant Steel(2006 lot#014), Herco (hercules) and 2400(also hercules).

Rem 788, 222 Rem. Cases formed from Speer 223 brass. Winchester spp. Noe 70 gr rn boolit lubed with Satans Lube (modified). Temps were in the low 50's with a breeze giving a wind chill in the low 40's, I am guessing. Numbers given are 5 shot average and standard deviation. Loads were 8, 9 and ten grains of each. Chronograph was a brand new Alpha master Chrony.

2400 - 1616/37.57, 1769/27.45, 1933/28.54

Steel - 1937/14.96, 2071/11.78, 2208/10.34

Herco - 1940/14.35, 2093/8.2, 2221/16.46

So, it would seem that my lot of Steel is essentially the same speed as my lot of Herco, and my lot of 2400 is a fair amount slower than both(comparatively speaking). What I found interesting was that the primers with 9 gr. Herco had noticeably flatter primers than the 9 gr. of Steel. I would also consider the 10 gr. of Herco to be a tad too much for my rifle and the 10 gr Steel to be the max based on primer appearance. The groups from the Herco and Steel were also better than the 2400. It was cold and breezy and my form was suffering but I keeping groups under an inch @ 50 yds with Herco and Steel @ 8 & 9 grains, the 2400 was closer to 2" with all loads.

Darrell

[Marlin Junky]

Darrel,

You don't mention the alloy used but if you were to use a softer alloy, the group results with Steel/Herco vs. 2400 would likely invert. I'm using up the last of my 2400 and even though it's a good powder, it doesn't produce the consistent chronograph stats I like to see out of the .358. IIRC, 2400 is more consistent from a lower expansion ratio cartridge.

At the risk of being redundant, if one can't find STEEL data for their particular application... use Herco data. In this time of shortages and panic buying, utilizing whatever 10/12 gauge waterfowl powders the manufacturers are producing makes a lot of sense.

MJ

[brotherdarrell]

I have been looking over my results and comparing them to my notes from when I first started working with Alliant Steel. I also pulled out my Lyman manuals and checking what was listed there and feel that I need to clarify a couple of things based on the data for Herco as published in both the Cast Bullet handbook and Lymans 48th. They show a max load of Herco as 8.6 & 8.8 grs with a 55 gr. boolit, which I clearly exceeded with a boolit of over 70 grs.

I started using Steel in my 222 based on the "assumption" that it was in the same speed range as 2400. Not having access to a reliable chronograph I could only go based on 'signs' of pressure such as flattened primers and tight bolt lift. Based on an absence of both I had worked up to 10 grs., but no higher as accuracy at that point was less with the lower powder charges.

Marlin Junkies results showed Steel to be closer to Herco which is why I duplicated the powder charges as I did. While shooting the Herco loads I was comparing them to what I got with the Steel. As they seemed to be tracking along nicely I kept shooting them even though I was starting to get some pressure signs, flattened primers. Even though the powder charges and velocities are almost the same between the two powders the pressure signs were not. With the Steel loads I had no flattened primers with the 9 gr. loads, with the Herco I did. They were not what I would consider grossly flattened but they were flattened. With the 10 gr. load of Herco I was getting a little edgy based on the degree to which they were flattened, and I was also starting to get a little pressure when I was lifting the bolt. The 10 gr. of Steel gave flattened primers similar to the 9 gr. load of Herco and no tightness on the bolt.

The main thing I want to get across is that these loads were worked up in MY rifle and I don't know what they would do in YOUR rifle. Based on accuracy alone I will not shoot more than 8 gr. of either in the future.

I also have to ask myself why the absence of pressure signs with a load over max and with a heavier boolit. The only thing I can come up with is the boolit design. The 70 gr. NOE rn is a bore-rider. The bore riding portion appears close to half again as much as the full diameter body. I can only guess that the shorter body resulted in less pressure, but that is only a guess.

Always work up loads in YOUR firearm and don't rely on the results of others. The data shows that the lot of Alliant Steel that I have is very close to the same speed as the lot of Herco that I have. When working up loads I can use Herco START data as a PLACE TO START!!!!! with Steel.

Be safe and use common sense when trying un-tested powders.

Darrell

[sargenv]

I sort of wonder why people think that Steel is anywhere close to Herco.. Herco seems to load at lower charge weights in shotshells than Steel ever will and with heavier payloads.. Herco is at best a medium weight medium velocity powder where Steel is a high velocity medium to heavy weight powder... Herco could launch maybe an 7/8 of an ounce of steel to 1400-1450 fps.. Alliant Steel can launch an ounce to an ounce and a eighth of steel to 1525-1600 fps.. I always thought of Steel as a more efficient, all temperature powder that was more in the speed range of Blue Dot.. but then I wonder if higher pressures make this a moot point.. I've not used steel in anything other than 20, 12, and 10 gauge steel loads thus far..

[Bill*B]

I have some Steel from lot #11, and like it in my 16" barrel .30-30 Trapper. 11.0 grains will propel a 178 grain GC at 1400 fps with excellent accuracy.

[Bullshop]

Last week I picked up the 2014 Hodgdons reloading supplement. This supplement as the rest contains a burn rate chart. This chart places Herco as #35, 2400 as # 55, and Steel as # 59. in progressive order of burn rate fastest to slowest.
That is much closer to what my results have shown with Steel than some of you fellas.

[brotherdarrell]

Bullshop - would you agree, based on the chrono results I got, that mine is closer to Herco? Any reason to think the small case I was using would affect the burn rate?

I am planning on doing a comparison in my 30-30 to see what happens. At this point I know just enough to know I dont know enough.

[Bullshop]

Yes Darrell in the test you reported going by the velocity I would tend to agree. However as Sargenv pointed out and as your primer comparison seemed to be pointing out there may have still been some room for velocity gain with the Steel that would have stayed within acceptable pressures.
The Steel seems to remain very predictable at the top end loads where other powders that are assigned lower numbers on the burn rate chart may spike.

[brotherdarrell]

Thank you sir

[fecmech]

Just thought I would add a little data to this thread. I'm loading the 30-30 with a light starting load of steel, just pulled it out of the air of 9 grs. I'm using a large pistol primer (Magtech) and Lyman 311466 (150 grs). With a 10 shot string, average is 1387,es=49, sd=14. For 311291 average is 1265,es=44, sd=15. The 311466 shot a peep sighted 10 shot group at 50 yds of 1 1/16 with 9 in 3/4" out of a Savage 340. I'm loading on an old Lyman Spar T turret with the powder measure on the press and rotating each shell to completion. That seems to settle the powder in the measure for consistent throws. Data is measure thrown charges. I will shoot at 100 yds and start bumping up the charge in the future.

[Messy bear]

In the 45 colt, I got results close to herco. Maybe a tad slower.

[brotherdarrell]

How bout some 7.5 x 55 data.

Quikload said 15 gr. Herco and the Lyman 311465 should give me 1900 fps. The first 5 shot group had an avg of 1970 and sd of 28 with one of those going well over 2000 fps. That one shot opened the group up to a little over 5" @ 100 yds with other 4 under 2.5" (open sights). The second 5 shot group had an avg of 1962 fps with a sd of 10.3, and all five came in under 3" @ 100 yds.

I will have to load another 20 of these and wring it out real good but it looks like a winner to me. I am liking this Steel more and more.

Darrell

[fecmech]

Shot 10.2 Steel@ 100 yds yesterday out of my Savage 340 30-30 with peep sight. I was using Lyman 311466 and the 10 shot group was right at 3". Did not have the chrono with me but based on the 9.3 gr load guessing mid to high 1400 fps range. Just thought I'd update.

[bruce drake]

Anyone else have further information on STEEL powder? I have a pound of the powder as well as I couldn't find my usual Red Dot when I went to my local gunshop.

I like how this is going as I will see what HERCO load data does for my cast loads.

[Bullwolf]

I posted this in a separate thread regarding Alliant Steel. I am re-posting it here to consolidate all the data in one place, in this more often updated thread.

Thanks everyone on Cast Boolits for experimenting with this shotgun powder for use in handgun loads. I kept seeing it on the shelf when everything else was out of stock, so I bought a few lbs of Alliant Steel - all with the same lot number of course. It was sitting on the shelf long enough to get dusty, at a time when almost all other powders have been out of stock.



Big thanks to 357maximum, and runfiverun for jumping in there with 44 Magnum and 357 Magnum, and Bullshop, brotherdarrel, and everyone else who has posted trying to pin down the burn rate of this powder.

i've shot a lot of it at 12 grs in my 44 mag under a 240 gr cast boolit.
that's where id start in a ruger or something like that 45 colt with a 250.
i used 800-x powder as my start data as steel is a step slower.
10 grs 800-x and 12 grs steel gave me velocity's very close to each other.

This past fall I used up 3/4 pound of "GIFTED" STEEL in the 4inch barrel on my 357MAG DanWesson Model 15 just to make it GONE, and for some badly need offhand revolver practice . I was using the 180Grain Larsen boolit and 11.5 grains of STEEL. Very accurate and pleasant to shoot although it was still a MAG load. Spot checks from my Dillon 550 was swinging from 11.3 to 11.6 grains but I could not pick up the variance on 25 and 50 yard swingers...got some practice in.

I went with jacketed bullets instead of cast boolits for the chronograph data to try to eliminate any boolit lube or casting or size/weight variance. (sorry gang)

I loaded .357 Magnum cases with a 158 grain JFP and Alliant Steel to an OAL of 1.590, using standard CCI #500 small pistol primers.

Loaded Alliant Steel at:
11.0 grains
12.0 grains
13.0 grains
14.0 grains

And for comparison:

13.0 grains of A2400
and
13.0 grains of old Hercules Blue Dot. (old Speer #11 load w/Hercules Blue Dot)

(DISCLAIMER)
Modern load data shows 13.0 grains of Blue Dot to now be an OVERMAX load!
Current load data recommends a maximum of 10 grains of Alliant Blue Dot.
PLEASE do not duplicate this load!

Chronograph Results for 357 Magnum.

Test Pistol is a Dan Wesson 357M w/4 inch barrel assembly

357 Magnum 158 grain Federal Factory JHP for a baseline.
-------------------------------------
1204 FPS - Low
1231 FPS - High
--------------------------------------
Alliant Steel hand loads 357 Magnum 158 JFP 1.590 OAL
11.0 grains
Error
(Chronograph was acting up)
-------------------------------------
12.0 grains of Alliant Steel 357 Magnum 158 JFP 1.590 OAL
911 FPS - Low
1161 FPS - High
-------------------------------------
13.0 grains of Alliant Steel 357 Magnum 158 JFP 1.590 OAL
1155 FPS - Low
1218 FPS - High
Note: Felt like a magnum load.
-------------------------------------
14.0 grains of Alliant Steel 357 Magnum 158 JFP 1.590 OAL
1221 FPS - Low
1266 FPS - High
Note: I really liked this load.
-------------------------------------
Comparison other powder 357 Magnum loads
-------------------------------------
13.0 grains of Hercules Blue Dot 357 Magnum 158 JFP 1.590 OAL
1269 FPS - Low
1273 FPS - High
-------------------------------------
13.0 grains of Alliant 2400 357 Magnum 158 JFP 1.590 OAL
Error
Note: Load felt very mild and cases were sooty.
-------------------------------------
It was overcast this day on 5/17/2014 and my chronograph not reading some shots. I should have brought some lights over to the Ranch with me, but I had not. I decided to check the chronograph again using factory Winchester white box 130 grain 38 special.
-------------------------------------
Winchester White Box 38 Special 130 grain.
767 FPS - Low
808 FPS - High
--------------------------------------
None of the 357 Magnum loads showed any high pressure signs, but you knew you pulled the trigger on the 13 grains of Blue Dot load, and on the 14 grains of Steel load.

Since the chronograph seemed to be working...

Moving on to the 44 Magnum testing.
Loaded 44 Magnum with a 240 grain JFP and Alliant Steel to an OAL of 1.610, using CCI #300 standard large pistol primers.

I expected that I would find a working load somewhere around:
12.0
13.0
14.0 grains of Alliant Steel in 44 Magnum.

I started off using a box of factory Federal 240 grain 44 Magnum JFP as a baseline.

Test pistol is a Dan Wesson 445 Supermag w/6 inch barrel assembly.

Chronograph results for 44 Magnum.
--------------------------------------
Federal 240 grain 44 Magnum Factory box JFP baseline:
1315 FPS - Low
1389 FPS - High

Chronograph appears to be working.
--------------------------------------
Same factory Federal load shot through a 20 inch 44 Magnum Henry rifle
1733 FPS - Low
1763 FPS - High
Chronograph still working
--------------------------------------
12.0 grains of Alliant Steel 44 Magnum OAL of 1.610
Error
--------------------------------------
13.0 grains of Alliant Steel 44 Magnum OAL of 1.610
Error
--------------------------------------
13.0 grains of Alliant Steel 44 Magnum OAL of 1.610
Error
-------------------------------------
13.0 grains of Blue Dot 44 Magnum OAL of 1.610
Error
Note: Load felt mild.
------------------------------------
13.0 grains of Alliant 2400 44 Magnum OAL of 1.610
Error
Note: VERY mild load, and cases were sooty.
------------------------------------
14.0 grains of Alliant Steel 44 Magnum OAL of 1.610
Error
Note: almost felt like a regular/mild 44 Magnum load.
--------------------------------------
Since none of my 44 Magnum Steel loads registered on the chronograph, all that I had left to go with was feel, felt recoil, and looking at the brass.

11.0 grains of Steel was very sooty and felt extremely light (brass did not seal)
12.0 grains of steel was also sooty, but felt like a mild load
13.0 grains of steel was also sooty and felt light.
14.0 grains of Steel almost feels like a regular 44 Mag load, not as much soot, and brass is starting to seal.

There were no high pressure signs with any of the 44 magnum Steel loads. If anything they were all under pressure. It wasn't until around 14 grains of Steel that the brass started to seal, and the load started cleaning up.

I wish I had loaded Steel at higher than 14.0 grains in the 44 Magnum, but I was trying to err on the side of caution. 14 grains of Steel felt like a pretty mild 44 Magnum load in the Super mag. I would have really liked to have tried 15.0 grains of Steel, and seen all my chrono numbers on the 44 Magnum loads as well.

I would have no problem practicing with the 14 grain load though, as it was a calm enough. I would probably try working up some charges a few tenths between 14 and 15 grains, and then looking for accuracy.

Not quite the plethora of information that I hoped due to Chronograph errors.
My lot of Steel (CE 0519) seems to act like slightly slower Blue Dot in 357 Magnum. I would say it was close enough in 44 Magnum that I could use Blue Dot data as well (and I did) as a starting point.

I really liked the case fill density using Steel, though it was a large bulky powder that did not want to meter well. I trickled all the Steel charges for these loads using a RCBS Charge master 1500 powder dispenser.






-Bullwolf


*Edit Second round of chronograph testing Alliant Steel


Chronograph data for Alliant Steel 10-05-2014 Temp 77F

Sellier & Bellot 240 grain JFP Factory 44 Magnum (baseline)
Test pistol is a Dan Wesson 445 Supermag w/6 inch barrel assembly.
1239 - High
1210
1196
1216
1169 - Low
1181
Average Velocity: 1201 FPS

Alliant Steel 44 Magnum Hand Load 240 grain JFP OAL of 1.610
Test pistol is a Dan Wesson 445 Supermag w/6 inch barrel assembly.
Standard CCI #300 Large Pistol Primer used
14.5 grains of Alliant Steel 44 Magnum OAL of 1.610
Error Reading
Note: Mild load, brass still shows some soot on outside of cases

(Added LED lights to the Chronograph due to errors)


15.0 grains of Alliant Steel 44 Magnum OAL of 1.610
1125 FPS - Low
1153 FPS - High
Average Velocity: 1139 FPS
Note: Soot on outside of cases is gone now

16.0 grains of Alliant Steel 44 Magnum OAL of 1.610
1138 FPS - Low
1153 FPS - High
Average Velocity: 1145 FPS
Note: outside of brass clean

16.0 grains of Hercules Blue Dot 44 Magnum OAL of 1.610 (comparison)
1191 FPS - Low
1291 FPS - High
Average Velocity: 1241 FPS
Note: outside of brass clean

17.0 grains of Alliant Steel 44 Magnum OAL of 1.610
1203 FPS - Low
1270 FPS - High
Average Velocity: 1236 FPS
Note: Cases were cleanest here, brass is sealing well.


Conclusion:

Factory S&B 240GR = 1201 FPS Average Velocity
Factory Fed 240GR = 1352 FPS Average Velocity

15 grains STEEL = 1139 FPS Average Velocity
16 grains BlueDot =1241 FPS Average Velocity
16 grains STEEL = 1145 FPS Average Velocity
17 grains STEEL = 1236 FPS Average Velocity

My lot of Alliant Steel is around 1 grain slower per charge in 357 & 44 Magnum than Blue Dot.
16 Grains of Blue Dot, or 17 Grains of Steel falls in between
S&B and Federal factory 44 Mag 240 grain ammunition velocities, and comes close to duplicating it.


- Bullwolf

[sargenv]

It seems I too should work up some data.. I have a 657 begging to be shot.. though my bullets will be in the 180 gr range (sorta light comparitively). I might dig out some 210 JHP's I have if it looks promising..

[dash1979]

First Post. What a great site of information.

So after loading rifle and pistol for a year now. I was at my local shop buying primers & powders I picked up some Longshot(only shotgun/pistol powder available) for my 9mm & some IMR 3031 for my 30-30.

I started casting for 9mm & 30-30 a few months ago, looking now into 7/8 lee slugs.
friend of mine gave me a load all-unfortunaly it's a 20guage oh well needs some parts...

so back to my question........I was in a rush having my 1 year old with me.
I saw some Alliant steel, bought it thinking " theres gotta be lots of data on this"
get home to find no such luck until i stumbled on this thread.

normally i load 4.0gn longshot for 9mm. same volume equals 2.7gn Steel. Anyone try it?

if not im glad people are having success with 30-30 loads

Also I was hoping to try a slug load with it, 7/8 slug-waa12sl-gunclub 12g hull, start low say 20gns steel?

any advice welcome. cheers