44 Mag with BP

[S&W-629]

Has any one loaded up the 44 Mag with Back powder and if so how much did you put in? Thanks

[Seth Hawkins]

Yes.

As much as it could hold. Around 2.6cc volume if memory serves me correctly.

That's what's so nice about BP - you can't load too much.

[S&W-629]

Thanks.How did it shoot? I have a **** load of BP some thing like 10# and i love to shot all the time and i dont want it to go bad. lol

[Nobade]

Well, it won't go bad so no worries about that. I use a lot of black in my Marlin 44 mag carbine and also my Ruger 44 spl. revolver. Both shoot better with black than they do with any smokeless load.

The amount of powder you use depends on what boolit you use. Shoot for about 1/8" compression on the powder when you seat the boolit.

Use the right boolit. Something that carries enough lube if you are using it in rifles. Cast them soft, no harder than air cooled wheelweights and use a proper BP specific lube. Something like this: http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_...=43-215C-D.png
is a fine choice for lube carrying and accuracy at longer ranges.

Anneal your cases really well to prevent blowback and keep your action clean. Wash the cases, with the primers removed, after you shoot to make them look like new and last a long time.

Once you learn how to make things work with black powder you might not want to go back to smokeless. I know I don't!

[Seth Hawkins]

Nobade pretty much covered it. I would caution you about annealing the cases, though. If you're not an experienced reloader and know what you're doing you can do more harm than good when trying to anneal the cases, especially short pistol brass.

And when it comes time to cleanup, just plain 'ol hot water is all you'll need. Forget about all the other snake oils being touted. Nothing works better, or is cheaper and more readily available, than water.

[felix]

Machine shops use water based coolants which are either pure synthetic from petro or water soluble extracts from natural oils. Your choice, and depends on what is free for the asking from the local shops. The one I use is blue in color and works perfectly. A two liter coke bottle full should last a loooong time. ... felix

[Grapeshot]

For several years I've been loading .44 Mag Cases with BP or Subs for Cowboy Action Shooting. I use a Lee 2.5 cc Dipper and a 240 gr Lyman 429666 Cowboy bullet. These are fired out of a Marlin .44 Mag Model 94 and have performed very well over the years.

[Dan Cash]

You must NEVER use regular, petroleum-based gunoil on/in any gun that's going to have BP shot in it. This includes the cleanup, too.

I have to disagree with the above statement. Petroleum based lubricants in bullet lube do some aweful things to the fouling and you will repent if you use them. Vasalene seems to be an exception to the rule though I have never used it. For lubrication and preservation after water clean up (hot is best but not always available) various petroleum lubes perform quite well. I am fond of Ed's Red and use it excellent results to prevent rust inside and out. FWIW, I am shooting more than 25 lbs of BP a year in cartridge rifle and pistol.

[bigted]

You must NEVER use regular, petroleum-based gunoil on/in any gun that's going to have BP shot in it. This includes the cleanup, too.

I have to disagree with the above statement. Petroleum based lubricants in bullet lube do some aweful things to the fouling and you will repent if you use them. Vasalene seems to be an exception to the rule though I have never used it. For lubrication and preservation after water clean up (hot is best but not always available) various petroleum lubes perform quite well. I am fond of Ed's Red and use it excellent results to prevent rust inside and out. FWIW, I am shooting more than 25 lbs of BP a year in cartridge rifle and pistol.

i must chime in as well on the gun oil issue...i use both rem oil and outers gun oil for preserving between shoots and never a problem with either for this use...i dont use petrolium products for lube either on boolits nor cookies but the canned spray oil mentioned works well for the oil preservative needed to store them...also sometimes i acually do swab em when im ready to shoot but more likely im just as apt to just shuck a shell in the chamber and fire away...never a problem.

cleanup is done with water,,,,,,,water/ballistol mix,,,,,,,ballistol plain,,,,,,,spit from my nasty jaws........ any other substance will cost way more AND will never do any better job then these plain substances.... now cleaning lead out is another storie entirely...blackpowder is not a product of a brain surgeon nor is the care of its firearms rocket science...just need to go back to the 100 yr + history and do as the ODG's did...[O=old... D= dead... G=guys].

U KNOW............KEEP IT SIMPLE $!#%!@

[S&W-629]

I have been shooting BP on and off for 10 + years and i cleaned them with hot water then i oiled them with Rem gun oil and i dint think thare was a problem.The gun that i would be shooting the BP in is a Stainles S&W 629 5 5/8 so i would think that it would cleen up prity good right?

[bigted]

YEP!!! i shoot my ruger sp100 with bp and all i do is swish em in hot ballistol water in the sink while i use a nylon brush on the exterior to clean off the residue and brush the bore n cylender with a brass brush then a mop to ensure there is all the gunk outta there then after i allow it to drip dry for a bit i spray it in every nook and crevis with outers and a bunch down inside the action and allo it to drip dry again..good to go. wipe down with a clean wrag and enjoy the sweet smell that got created in the house...thats before the wife begins to huff about the "awfull smell"...LOL

your advantage is the ease of removing the cylender on your smith.

['74 sharps]

Bp load is always a full case.

Cleanp for my bp revolver, a Colt SAA in .45, is remove grips, hot water, and finish up with a coat of Ballistol. Works every time. Do not see a need for anything else.

[9w1911]

I am just starting to load 3F for the 44 mag Marlin 1894c and the data states 25gn of 3f which fills the case and compresses the power, I loaded my first case last night and stopped when the bullet, which was set up to seat to the top of crimp on a lswc 240gn for smokeless. and it did not seat to depth. Do I need to adjust the seating die to push the bullet into the case further, compressing the powder to get the bullet to seat at proper depth proper depth?

[otter5555]

Has any one loaded up the 44 Mag with Back powder and if so how much did you put in? Thanks

yes, every day

i use 16.1 gr BY WEIGHT behind a lee 240 gr swc. superbly accurate in every 44 mag i own. gives 1/16" compression in my cases.

otter

[9w1911]

so seating this will feel a bit stiffer than smokeless because i am compressing so much?

[bigted]

here is a golden rule of thumb...measure your boolit from the base to the ring that you plan to seat the boolit at. now subtract .120 inch...[1/8th inch] ... from this number. now fill the case to this number and seat your boolit down to and compress with the boolit to your final seating depth.

example;

1- boolit measures .500 inch from the base to the crimp groove.
2- take .500 and subtract the .120 inch from it ...= .380 inch
3- fill the case to within the .380 inch from the top of the case.
4- put your boolit in the case and seat it to the crimp ring...thus compressing your powder a full 1/8th inch or the .120 just talked about.
5- crimp and shoot!
6- wipe that silly grin from yer chops
7- HEY ...your still grinning like an idgit.

its that simple to start. have fun and report back on how long it took to dissolve the grin on yer ugly mug.

[Dave Bulla]

9w1911,

I'm a bit of a new guy in the BP cartridge game but you're raising red flags to me when you say the bullets won't seat deep enough. If you are loading the same lead bullet with BP that you were using with smokeless and you have not reset your dies, it should still be correct. I assume you are using a press, probably a single stage? There should be plenty of power there to compress your load a SAFE amount. If you are compressing so much that you can't get there with a press you might be doing something wrong and potentially dangerouis.

One thing I have found is that BP needs to be "settled" in the case. That is, you can tap/jiggle the case to settle the powder or use a drop tube which is a long tube like a funnel and you trickle the powder in through it. For some reason, when dropped from a height slowly, the BP will settle in the case and allow you to get more powder in a given space. For example, you can dip a 45-70 case full to the rim then if you do the tap/jiggle thing, you can get about 3/8" of space for the bullet after the powder settles. Same goes if you use a drop tube. There is disagreement out there whether or not a drop tube is needed but they've been around forever.

Anyway, I suggest you do some more research, look into proper steps like bigted just gave above and make sure you are doing it right. One step in bigted's list that he might have omitted would be settling the powder to get that .380" of space but hopefully he will verify that for you.

[9w1911]

I did not settle the powder and will try this. Load data is 25gn from hodgdon website and that pretty much fills the case but leaves a little space. I am using a Dillon 550b. I will measure the bullet depth to the crimp groove and adjust hopefully I can just tap the case and get the 3f to settle.
does using the Dillon powder drop make the powder more fluffy?

[9w1911]

Easier to seat one bullet today after I had shook the case a bit and the powder did settle

[w30wcf]

so seating this will feel a bit stiffer than smokeless because i am compressing so much?

Sounds like you may be using 777 or Pyrodex(?) due to the 25 gr wt. you are using.

The way that I use to determine compression is to take a fired case and remove the crimp so the bullet will slide freely inside the case. Settle the powder charge in the case by dumping it slowly through the funnel with the powder pan held 5 - 6" above it.

Place the bullet down on top of the powder and measure the oal. Add or subtract powder until the difference between that oal and the finished cartridge oal = the amount of compression that you desire.

Have fun!
w30wcf