Annealing cases for BP

[montana_charlie]

I think a much better suggestion would be to avoid brightly lit areas.

Did you watch the video?
If it didn't change your mind, I am certainly not going to try.

CM

[Ed in North Texas]

When I started with my 45-70s about 3 years ago, I spent a Friday with Doug Knoell while he worked over the Rolling Block I bought. I took about 6 or 7 pages of notes on most everything I could think of and he could also. One item was case prep and sealing the cases to the chamber. From his notes: "I fire form the cases after notching the edge of the rim and then do the cleaning/polishing routine. I true the edge of the case mouth and then bevel the inside edge just a little. I then insert the empty case into the chamber and if it slides in a bit too easily I will expand the case mouth ever so slightly and try it again until I get a snug fit, possibly even having to use a "seater" to fully seat the case. Then when you shoot, there should be absolutely no powder streaks on the sides of the case. Note my bullets are a slide fit into the case with no crimp. Don't see no need to anneal the cases unless I am going to crimp the cases, which I don't."

I have followed this advice and get a very great seal with no streaks at all AFTER the first fire forming. During the first shots, there will be some streaks and have been on all the brass I have used so far. I have also looked inside the chamber and barrel when shooting with my bore-scope and you can actually see the line where the end of the case is in the chamber. So far

Sounds like great information. Is it reasonable to believe you do not hunt with the rifle? It sounds more like a match rifle prep and loading.

Ed

[oldracer]

As you surmised, I do not hunt but in a single shot with a round in the chamber it would not matter if the case was crimped or not. The hunters I have talked to in AZ and CA say they load a round and carry at half cock. My Sharps and Rolling Blocks need to be cocked to shoot but in a lever action or something like the BFR 45-70 revolver they would need a crimp although slightly I imagine? I have found that I have never had a bullet fall out of a case with the mouth slightly expanded and I do pick up the round by the bullet so there is some resistance.

I went and checked some rounds tonight and the slight bell at the mouth affects only about 50% of the bullet length so 50% is snug in the case. The bell is so slight that it can be barely felt my finger pressure on the case. I also checked my bullet size and they are 0.459 diameter after sizing. I too use a 500gn Lee cast bullet, the pointed ones from the double molds.

[BCRider]

On colors and red glowing. A dim room is best IF the metal in question will be heated to a glow be it dull red to bright cherry. A dim room for THAT sort of temperature guaging is best.

For determining the oxidation colour as seen in montana charlie's posted video link a brightly lit room is best.

Two different jobs and two different ideal environments.

Charlie, the cases don't need to be dropped into water but it does halt the heat from creeping through the metal any further than the colour change on the end. So for that it's a good step.

To those that think that red hot brass dumped into water will cause it to go hard this is simply not the case. Higher carbon content tool steels get hard from the quench because of how the metal atoms are forced to link with the carbon during the quench. Brass and aluminium simply do not have the carbon or other suitable additives to cause them to go hard by quenching.

"Water hardening" cast boolits by dropping the freshly "frozen" cast boolits from the mold to the water vs onto a tray to cool slowly is another issue. I need to read up on the metallurgy of that mechanism.

I've annealed brass by getting it dull red for other applications. It DOES make the brass VERY soft. I suspect TOO soft for use as ammo casings. So the partial vs full on annealing suggested by only heating to a blue oxidation colour makes a lot of sense.

[mehavey]

Calibration check.

I have discovered that:

1. Starline 45-anything rifle brass DOES require annealing to seal at BP pressures. Case wall thickness is that required for high-pressure/high performance smokeless loads and does not expand at low pressure. I anneal ALL those cases.
2. Starline 38-55 brass, conversely, is rather thin by design, and more often than not does seal effectively with even moderate BP loads.

When I do anneal. however, it is by using 750◦ Tempilaq in the neck for the first several
cases until a flame dwell time is established for that session. I most specifically do not
rely on color as it is quite dependent on consistent room lighting.

[13Echo]

Probably the best way is to get a bottle of liquid 650 deg F Tempelac (sp?). Put a bit on a case neck and let dry then run it through the flame. when the Templelac melts take it out and let cool. It will be properly annealed. Take note of the time required and do the other cases for exactly the same time in the flame. No guessing required.

Jerry Liles

[cajun shooter]

Let me add this bit of information that I was given by KW. The annealing of case mouths does more than seal the chambers. KW advised me about 3 or so years ago to anneal my brass each and every time they were loaded. Now this pertains to BP loads.
His groups changed by a large amount once he started this practice.
This man has many NRA National records and I look up to him when it comes to shooting accurately.
I started the same practice and my targets improved by a large margin.
It all boils down to what you want to receive on the down range side. If you are a pie plate sight in type of person, then don't worry about it as far as the help with the accuracy viewpoint goes.