Old West Gunmen

[Gibson]

Jay, the film collages were downright therapeutic--and the El Paso Riding Academy Shootout account was well and throughly done.

Thanks, AL. I would have thought others would chime in as well, I thought that was a good accounting of the story. The writer quoted oftenest, Chuck Parsons, is one of the top 'Texas in the old west' historians still above ground. The article I quoted from was from "The Texas Ranger Dispatch" Winter, 2010.

Really had a blast talking with you this afternoon. May 1992, pg. 24 G&A. The search begins.

[Gibson]

Tonight it's Youngers versus Pinkertons.

The Roscoe Gunfight. Up in a bit.

[Gibson]

Tonight it will be "The Roscoe Gunfight".

Youngers versus Pinkertons.





" The monument is located on E Highway. From Osceola one would take B Highway to E or take Highway 82 West of Osceola and turn at Roscoe

The reputed outlaws, John Younger and his brother James Younger fought a gun battle with detectives James Wright and Louis J. Lull (alias Allen). E.B. Daniels acted as a local guide for Wright and Lull.

The battle was fought about 1\4 mile east of here on March 17, 1874. In the fight, John Younger and E.B. Daniels were killed. Detective Lull was severely wounded and taken to Roscoe for treatment where, by later reports, he either died or pretended death to escape from the rest of the Youngers. Detective Wright disappeared.

The Youngers were natives of the area, frequenting Roscoe, Osceola and Monegaw Springs. The detectives were Pinkerton agents out of Chicago whose mission it was to capture the Youngers and their cousins, the James brothers.

The old monument is down a gravel road about 1/4 mile from the new monument. "

[Gibson]

This gunfight took place on the Chalk Level Road, near the town of Roscoe from whence it takes it's generally referenced name. (It is also very near to Osceola; the town that the vile sadistic trash Senator James Lane sacked and burned to the ground in 1861). The modern location name is Monegaw Springs located on County Road 3 near the southwestern end of Harry S. Truman Reservoir in St. Clair County. Our battle involved Jim (James) and John Younger as well as Louis J. Lull, John Boyle, and former deputy Edwin B. Daniel. John Boyle discovered rabbit in his blood and fled while taking a round in his hat. John Younger would die from a wound through his neck while bending over picking up revolvers. Former deputy Daniel and ultimately Lull died as well. Rough men those Youngers.

The wonderful old gentleman and minister Wilbur Zink authored a pamphlet on the Younger-Pinkerton gunfight in the late 1960s. Short but dense. He actually had the Younger home place dismantled and cataloged every board. He kept it stored in his barn until restoration could take place. We will begin with the scanty evidence presented at the "Coroner's Inquest" over the bodies of:

" Edward Daniel and John Younger:

W.J. Allen, being duly sworn, testified as follows:

Yesterday, about half past two o'clock, the 17th day of March, 1874, E.B. Daniels and myself were riding along the road from Roscoe to Chalk Level, which road runs past the house of one Theodoric Snuffer, and about three miles from the town of Roscoe, and in St. Clair County, Missouri. Daniels and myself were riding side by side, and Wright a short distance ahead of us; some noise behind us attracted our attention, and we looked back and saw two men on horseback coming toward us, and one was armed with a double-barrel shotgun, the other with revolvers; don't know if the other had a shotgun or not; the one had the shotgun cocked, both barrels, and ordered us to halt; Wright drew his pistol and put spurs to his horse and rode off; they ordered him to halt and shot at him and shot off his hat, but he kept on riding. Daniels and myself stopped, standing across the road on our horses; they rode up to us and ordered us to take off our pistols and drop them in the road, the one with the gun covering me all the time with the gun. We dropped our pistols on the ground, and one of the men told the other to follow Wright and bring him back, but he refused to go, saying he would stay with him; one of the men picked up the revolvers we had dropped, and looking at them, remarked they were damn fine pistols, and they must make them a present of them; one of them then asked me where we came from, and I said Osceola; he then wanted to know what we doing in this part of the country; I replied, rambling around. One of them then said, you were up here one day before; I replied that we were not; he then said we had been at the Springs; I replied that we had been at the Springs, but had not been inquiring for them, that we did not know them, and they said detectives had been up there hunting for them all the time, and they were going to stop it. Daniels then said, "I am no detective; I can show you who I am and where I belong;" and one of them said he knew him, and then turned to me and said, "what in the hell are you riding around here with all them pistols on for? and I said: "Good God! is not every man wearing them that is traveling and have I not as much right to wear them as any one else?" and the one that had the shotgun said, "Hold on, young man, we don't want any of that," and then lowered the gun, cocked it in a threatening manner; then Daniels had some talk with them, and one of them got off his horse and picked up the pistols; two of them were mine and one was Daniels'; the one mounted had the gun drawn on me, and I concluded that they intended to kill us. I reached my hand behind me and drew a No. 2 Smith & Wesson pistol and cocked it and fired at the one on horseback, and my horse frightened at the report of the pistol and turned to run, I heard two shots and my left arm fell, and then I had no control over my horse, and he jumped into the bushes and the trees and checked his speed, and I tried to get hold of the rein with my right hand to bring him into the road one of the men rode by me and fired two shots at me, one of which took effect in my left side, and I lost all control of my horse and he turned into the brush and a small tree struck me and knocked me out of the saddle.I then got up and staggered across the road and lay down until I was found. No one else was present.

W.J. ALLEN

Subscribed and sworn to, before me, this 18th day of March, 1874

JAMES ST. CLAIR

TESTIMONY OF JOHN M'FARRIN

I heard a shot a couple of hundred yards from my house, and I found out after the first shot that it was John and James Younger; after the first shot they ceased firing for some time, and then commenced again, but I had not seen any of the parties, but after several shots had been fired, another man, who I did no know, come down the road, and I think was shooting at the other man; he continued to run down the road east of here; I think John Younger passed the man on the grey here; about the time John Younger passed him I saw him sink on his horse, as if going to fall; don't know what become of him afterwards; then Younger turned to come west and began to sink, and then fell off his horse; then James Younger came down here a foot to where John Younger was laying and the horse that John Younger was riding, and that was the last I saw of james Younger. JOHN McFARRIN. X

Subscribed and sworn to before me, this 18th day of March, 1874

JAMES ST. CLAIR, J.P.

TESTIMONY OF THEODORICK SNUFFER

The men came to my house and inquired the way to Mrs. Sims; the third man came along afterwards and overtook them; the two Youngers, John and James, after they had passed, followed them; I saw James Younger after the fight; he told me that John younger was dead; that they had killed one of the men and that one other had been wounded and got away; that they had wounded Allen; that Allen had a pistol secreted and fired the first shot.

THEODORIC SNUFFER

Subscribed and sworn to before me, this 18th day of March, 1874.

JAMES ST. CLAIR, J.P.

TESTIMONY OF G.W. M'DONALD

John Younger fell from his horse; James Younger came running up to where John had fallen and called me to him; he then turned him (John Younger) over and took some revolvers off of him, and a watch and something else out of his pockets; I do not know what else; I saw John Younger and another man shooting at each other when the first firing commenced; I think James Younger took four revolvers off of John Younger, his brother; he threw one over the fence and told me to keep it; he then told me to catch a horse and go down and tell Snuffer's folks.

Sworn to and subscribed before me, the 18th day of March, 1874

JAMES ST. CLAIR, J.P.

TESTIMONY OF DRS. MARQUIS AND LEWIS

All we know concerning the death of the two men, being the same that the inquest is being held over, is that one, John Younger, came to his death from the effects of a gunshot wound, which entered the right side of his neck, touching the clavical bone on the upper side, and about two inches from the meredian, went nearly straight through the neck; the orifice is small, indicating that he was shot with a small ball. The other man, Edwin B.Daniels, came to his death from the effect of a gunshot wound, which entered the left side of the neck, about one inch from the meredian line, about midway of the neck, opposite the aesophagus, and as per examination, went nearly straight through the neck, striking the bone; the orifice was pretty large, indicating that the ball was of a pretty large size.

A.C. MARQUIS, M.D.

L. LEWIS, M.D.

Subscribed and sworn to before me, this 18th day of March, 1874

JAMES ST. CLAIR, J.P.

The following names comprise the coroner's jury, with A. Ray as foreman: A.Ray, G.W. Cox, J.Davis,

W. Holmes, R.C.Gill and H. Greason.

The verdict of the jury was as follows:

We, the jury, find that John Younger came to his death by a pistol shot, supposed to be in the hands of

W.J. Allen.

A.RAY, Foreman

We, the jury, find that Edward B.Daniel came to his death by a pistol shot, supposed to have been fired by the hand of James Younger.

A. RAY, Foreman"

[Gibson]

John Younger was as no nonsense guy. Two incidents to illustrate this:

It is related by Cole but here is a basic synopsis from legendsofamerica.com (the fish is referenced as a "frozen Mackeral" in many accounts and at least one has the slingshot on the fellows wrist. Also, most accounts state that they were in town getting work done on one of Cole's revolvers.)

"After the war was over, when John and Bob had driven their mother into Independence, Missouri for supplies in January, 1866, a soldier recognized the family and began to make rude comments about Cole. When 15 year-old John told him to be quiet, the soldier slapped him on the face with a frozen fish, at which point John pulled out a revolver and shot him between the eyes. After the dead soldier’s body was examined, it revealed a sling shot, so the killing was ruled as self-defense. "

The second incident (from the odmp.org site):

"Deputy James McMahan and Deputy Charles Nichols were shot and killed while attempting to arrest a suspect. While the officers attempted to handcuff him he produced a handgun and shot both officers.

The suspect was one of two brothers, John Younger, known as the Younger Gang who shot and killed Deputy Edwin Daniels, of the St. Clair County, Missouri, Sheriff's Department, on March 17, 1874."

Sandwiched between the two incidents was an episode of sadistic torture by a "posse" seeking information on Cole. Bob and John Younger were grabbed. Bob was knocked senseless and John was strangled four different times but evidently remained quiet. The posse gave up. So, says Coleman. Take it for what it's worth but given the spirit of the times, it certainly more than possible.

John goes on to be involved in both a bank and a train robbery with his brothers. The Pinkertons swear to get both the Youngers and the Jameses.

Thus in the second week of March, 1874 former Chicago policeman and now a Pinkerton Agent Louis Lull and St. Louis Pinkerton Detective Boyle checked into the Commercial Hotel in Osceola, Missouri. The men had been sent in response to the Gad's Hill train robbery on the last day January. While at the Commercial, the detectives met up with former, now part time, deputy Edwin Daniels. He was enlisted as their contact in the area. The two men registered with false names and posed as cattle buyers to the locals. Cattle Buyers, indeed. . . They whole thing was in error, as only two Youngers were even in St. Clair County at the time. And they, just barely. . . they were supposed to have left on March 16, but John, being somewhat the partying type and a dedicated ladies' man had persuaded Jim to stay over an extra night in order to attend a dance late on the night of the 16th at the Monegaw Hotel. The two Youngers stayed the night with a black couple named John and "Aunt Hannah" McFerrin, dear family friends. It seems "Aunt Hannah" was a sister to a former slave in the Younger household. She loved and cared for all of the Younger boys and they loved her. She hid them, fed them, and 'doctored' them over the years. At least one genealogical site has her living to the age of 114! (Wilber Zink mentioned above, who passed in 2010 actually met Aunt Hannah.) Around noon,Jim and John said their goodbyes to their friends and left. They shortly stopped at the home of Theodore Snuffer, another friend, to visit and grab a meal.

The three "lawmen" departed Roscoe about the same time as the Youngers left "Aunt Hannah's". They ventured north along the Chalk Level Road until they reached a cabin. Boyle announced he needed to stop there for a moment and would catch up, so says Boyle. . . more likely the men knew they were near trouble and Boyle stayed back about in reserve so to speak. Whatever. Lull and Daniels rode up to the home of Theodore Sniffer without Boyle. Who was for whatever reason, less than a mile back. The men in the house clearly heard the horses and knew something was afoot.

From internet article, "The Roscoe Gunfight":

"Jim and John immediately grabbed their guns and ran up to the loft above Snuffer’s house. Snuffer, meanwhile, went outside to investigate. In front of his porch outside he met Louis Lull and Ed Daniels, seated on their horses. Unbeknownst to Snuffer, John Boyle was sitting on his horse about three quarters of a mile behind Lull and Daniels. Lull and Daniels exchanged greetings with Snuffer and Lull said that they were cattle buyers. He went on to say that they were in need of directions to the house of a widow Simms, who he figured might sell some cattle to them. Snuffer gave the pair directions to Mrs. Simms’s place and Lull thanked him. After that, Lull and Daniels turned around and headed back to Boyle, the opposite way that Snuffer had told them to travel to the Simms place. Jim and John had watched the entire encounter from their hiding place through some slots in the wall. "

The Youngers instantly noted two things: Too many guns, and too nervous. The men were pegged as trouble.

Desperate and plain rough, John wanted to immediately pursue the men but Jim argued for not going looking for trouble. During this, Boyle was observed to ride down the same path as the others and head toward them. Argument over. The Youngers grabbed their horses and went looking for the men and whatever it might entail. They were Youngers and they were game. Jim was wearing a pistol on each hip, as they pulled out he drew one of the hand cannons; and John was wearing one pistol on his right hip, but was also holding a double-barrel shotgun across the crook of his right arm. They headed down the Chalk Level Road. Loaded for bear and as game as bantam roosters.

The trio of 'lawmen' had reunited about a half-mile from the Snuffer place. The Youngers knew that that cut the others had taken would lead to the main road near Aunt Hannah's place. They rode diagonally across the hilly country, to intercept them on the main road.

More. . .

Aunt Hannah is here, Borm: May 9, 1806 Virginia, USA Death: Oct. 17, 1920

[Gibson]

Jim and John Younger came up fast and yelled for the trio of 'lawmen' to halt. Quickly apprehending what was going on Boyle cut and ran. Jim wheeled around and yelled again only to be ignored by the now in full flight Boyle. Jim yanked a sixgun and busted a cap in his direction. Grazing the top of his skull and plowing through his hat. Very lucky man. He just kept up the hell for leather pace until he got clear.

As good of an account as any of what happened next is provided by the internet article cited earlier, "The Roscoe Gunfight: The Youngers vs. The Pinkertons":

"With Boyle gone, Jim turned both of his pistols on Lull and Daniels. John also leveled his shotgun directly at Lull’s chest. By now, there was only a few feet distance between Lull and Daniels and Jim and John. The Youngers ordered both men to put their hands up, and this they did. John then ordered both men to throw all their weapons to the ground. As Lull and Daniels did this, Jim holstered one of his pistols and dismounted. While on the ground, he kept his one still-drawn pistol on Lull and began picking up all the guns that Lull and Daniels had dropped down. One of the guns that belonged to Lull that Jim picked up was a .43 caliber Trantor, which was made in England and was very expensive. Jim, in a cocky manner, thanked Lull for this new “present.” John, in a threatening manner, demanded to know who the two men were. Lull casually responded that they were cattle buyers from Osceola. Jim then asked what they were doing in the Roscoe area then. Lull responded that they were “Just rambling around.” John now came right out and asked Lull if they were detectives. Lull responded in the negative, but Jim then asked him why they were so heavily armed. Lull quickly responded by saying that it was there right to be armed. With this, John turned his shotgun on Daniels, who had up to this point remained entirely silent. Jim also turned his attention (and his pistol) on Daniels. John asked Daniels if he had anything he’d like to add, and Daniels merely shook his head in the negative. Noticing how both Jim and John’s attention, and more importantly, their guns as well, Lull seized the opportunity and pulled a small No. 2 Smith & Wesson pistol out of his coat pocket. Out of the corner of his eye, John saw Lull’s action and began bringing his shotgun back to face Lull. As John was doing this, Lull took no time to aim and fired a single shot. The bullet hit John in the throat and he fell back in his saddle. He also instinctively fired both barrels of his shotgun. The loads of buckshot hit Lull throughout his shoulder and arm. Jim suddenly turned towards Lull and fired a shot at him, which missed. Lull then dropped his gun and, with his good arm, turned his horse to face the direction that Boyle had already fled in and took off. Daniels turned his horse to try to follow him, but Jim shifted his attention back to him and fired another shot. This bullet hit Daniels in the neck and the force knocked him from his horse. He fell to the ground, dead. John, bleeding profusely but still alive and now in a terrible rage of anger, dropped his shotgun, pulled out his pistol, and took off after Lull. Jim, meanwhile stayed behind to examine Daniels’s body. Jim did not know that John had been shot and figured that Lull’s bullet had missed him since he was still in his saddle and was going after Lull. After Lull reached the woods located at the end of the field he had fled through, a low-hanging branch hit him in the head and knocked him off of his horse and into some bushes. John saw Lull fall and fired a shot into the bushes with his pistol. The shot missed, then John fired a second time. This bullet hit Lull in the middle of his chest. John, figuring Lull was dead or dying, then turned his horse around and slowly walked it back to where Jim was. By now he had lost a lot of blood and was swaying in his saddle. When he reached Jim, Jim looked up at him, screamed “John!” and ran towards his brother. Before he could get to him, John toppled out of his saddle and into the dirt. John Harrison Younger, the first of the Younger brothers outlaw dynasty to go, was dead at the age of twenty-three. "

Louis J. Lull was eventually taken to Aunt Hannah's where his horrific wounds were seared and he survived for some time before succumbing to the wounds. Some say a few days some say a few weeks. Whatever, he died from his wounds.

John Younger was buried in an old family plot on the Chalk Level Road but was later moved to a Lee's Summit, Missouri cemetery.

What happened to Boyle? Well:

"After John fell to the ground, two farmers who were in the surrounding fields and witnessed the gunfight, Speed McDonald and Ol Davis, ran out to where Jim and John were. After holding his dead brother for a short time, Jim removed all of his personal affects. When Jim saw Davis and McDonald, he ordered the latter to take John’s body back to the Snuffer place, to tell Snuffer what happened, and to have Snuffer take care of John’s body. With that, Jim saddled up and rode off in the direction that Boyle had previously fled in. Boyle managed to reach Osceola and told the sheriff there that the Youngers had captured his two fellow Pinkertons."

Boyle was almost immediately circumspectly FIRED by the Pinkertons and dismissed as a "dirty dog" and a "coward" by William Pinkerton. Stupidly, Boyle would later use the Pinkertons as a reference on a job application with the St. Louis Police Department. William Pinkerton advised them to "have nothing to do with him". Boyles career in policing was up in smoke.

Possible likeness of Lull:





Jim Younger:



John Younger:

[Gibson]

At 23 years old John Younger, from the best accounts I can find had killed 4 men. Some allege it was 3. Nevertheless, he killed one after he, himself, was dead.

The backdrop of the above is that VERY recently Frank James (or as most say Jesse) dismantled Pinkerton Agent Joseph Whicher. I believe it was a week before the above. Yeatman, who I consider to be the absolute best on Jesse and Frank, follows William Settle's seminal book, "Jesse James Was His Name", and names Jesse, Arthur McCoy, and Jim Anderson as the killers of Whicher. But I think it was Frank who took him out.

The 26 year old Whicher rolled into Liberty, Missouri and told some prominent men of his plan to obtain a job as a farmhand at the James place, and when the time was right, he would arrest Jesse and Frank. Unreal, how green could this clearly city raised boy be? This is a good example of how the Pinkertons operated against the James and Younger folk.

When he related this brainless plan to a former sheriff, O.D. Moss, Moss looked at the Pinkerton Agent and said, "son if the James boys don't kill ya the ole lady (Jesse and Franks hard as nails mother, Zerelda) will. . ."

In short order Whicher was as dead as the proverbial doornail.

"Pinkerton agent John W. Whicher arrived at Liberty on March 10, 1874, and consulted with D.J. Adkins, president of the local Commercial Bank, and O.P. Moss, a former sheriff, about his plans. He told them that he intended to obtain a farmhand's job at the Samuels' farm (the farm of the Jameses' stepfather and the boys' hangout). When the opportunity was ripe, he said, he would capture the outlaws. Both of the local men cautioned Whicher against such a bold plan. Moss told him, The old woman [the James boys' fiery mother, Zerelda] would kill you if the boys don't. The cocky 26-year-old detective would hear no more. After getting directions to the Samuels' farm, Whicher dressed up as a farm laborer (though he was described as having a tender complexion and hands like a city fellow) and, at 5:15 p.m., boarded a slow freight taking him to within four miles of the farm. Unfortunately for Whicher, the James boys had already been alerted, most likely by banker Adkins. Whicher's body was found the next morning, south of the Missouri River near Independence, Mo. He had been shot through the head and heart, and a rope dangled from his neck."

Ten months later the Pinkertons would murder Jesse and Frank's half brother Archie and cripple Zerelda, as well as injuring a black woman who worked for the James family. Later it was learned that a neighbor had hired a Pinkerton spy to watch for the James boys and was integral in the bombing. John Askew, the Samuels' neighbor who had hired the man who turned out to be a Pinkerton spy, was gunned down in front of his house on the night of April 12, 1875. The Pinkertons were indicted in Missouri for murder but were never arrested. They left the James family alone.

Just rambling but do you guys remember the great line from Frank James to Governor Crittenden when he walked into his office and surrendered in 1882? Frank was introduced, shook the Governor's hand, and then unbuckled his gun belt and said, "I present to you what no living man has been allowed to touch since 1861." Crittenden cut a wry smile toward Frank while looking at the Remington 1875 revolver and said "1861?". To which Frank then said, "I have only had the cartridge belt for 17 years". Frank James knew what the smile was about and Crittenden knew that James was speaking about his gun and belt per se, not any individual gun and belt. Thus Frank's quip back about only having the cartridge belt for 17 years. Frank was rather better read than many of the other outlaws we discuss here. Smart and brutal, a deadly combination. The interesting thing to note is "unbuckled his gun belt". So, At shortly before 5 pm, Frank James walked into the capitol building, met with a prominent official were ushered into an office where the Governor was present. He did all this with a sixgun and cartridge belt buckled on. The debunkers would have you believe men didn't go around armed in cities/towns or they had their guns tucked in their pockets. Indeed some did, but to act as if many did not go around openly heeled only demonstrates ignorance. This took place in Missouri in 1882.

[Gibson]

Addenda:

I was reading the other night about the Ford brothers. After 'backshooting' Jesse James, Robert along with his brother (Charley) traveled around and put on a stage show. It seems they went to NYC and well very well received. They then put on the show in Louisville and were booed and pelted. With the people "yelling murderer and coward at them". Likely they showed up for that purpose. . . Just shows the difference in folks I suppose. If it had been Paducah, Kentucky, I imagine the show would have ended with gunfire. LOL

Can't you picture ole Frank walking in to see the governor strapped?

Franklin:

[Gibson]

Addenda:

The following letter is preceded by a quote from a poster on another site. . .

Noticing how both Jim and John’s attention, and more importantly, their guns as well, Lull seized the opportunity and pulled a small No. 2 Smith & Wesson pistol out of his coat pocket. Out of the corner of his eye, John saw Lull’s action and began bringing his shotgun back to face Lull. As John was doing this, Lull took no time to aim and fired a single shot. The bullet hit John in the throat and he fell back in his saddle. He also instinctively fired both barrels of his shotgun. The loads of buckshot hit Lull throughout his shoulder and arm. Jim suddenly turned towards Lull and fired a shot at him, which missed. Lull then dropped his gun and, with his good arm, turned his horse to face the direction that Boyle had already fled in and took off.

Amazing. This is the first documented use of a .32 caliber No. 2 Smith and Wesson in a gun fight that I have seen.
For not aiming, he did darn good hitting his adversary in the throat, both of them being on horseback and all.
Poor guy did get both barrels of buckshot dumped in him, but at least he got his man...

Here is a letter Lull's wife penned to the New York Herald and printed in the Feb 9 1883 edition, she has some of the story wrong, John rode up to a fleeing Lull and shot him in the chest, even after himself being shot in the throat. Nevertheless the letter is a fascinating account by a participant's wife and is coeval. Indeed, it is sad. That Smith pistol strikes a chord with me. I will search for where I have read more on it. So glad you are following these. My wife says she is going to gather these up and compile them for me. Then I can correct the atrocious grammar, spelling and typos. I wonder if we could sticky this? I'll ask.

"Let me tell the true story of a single one of these detectives rides to death that those who cheer tales of crime at the theatres may have a glimpse of the other side of the picture The story is simple In 1874 Capt Louis J Lull late of the Chicago police force was employed by Allen Pinkerton to take charge of the little band of brave men who were to bring these ruffians to account It was after the Gadshill robbery and Capt Lull an Eastern man honest of purpose of high character and indomitable courage rode out upon ta pre arranged route of search having St Clair County Mo as its objective point One of his associates Mr WJ Whicher took a road leading to the borders of Clay County and they were to act in unison Capt Lull was accompanied by Mr Wright and by Sheriff Daniels of St Clair County The party rode into the Monogaw woods near Roscoe Mo and were there suddenly surprised by the Younger brothers who were also mounted and who instantly covered the party with their rifles The terrible battle commenced at once The Youngers called upon the detectives to give up their weapons They had been surprised the chances were all against them and they dropped the navy revolvers which were in their belts After they had done so John Younger fired and shot Daniels dead Wright spurred up his horse and fled Capt Lull was then alone with these outlaws He had surrendered yet he was fired upon and his bridle arm was shattered before he could strike a blow He succeeded however in extricating a small Smith & Wesson revolver from an inside pocket he had dropped his navy revolver in response to the call to surrender and he shot and killed John Younger Then commenced a desperate encounter between Capt Lull and Jim Younger Riding furiously side by side they shot at each other again and again But Capt Lull's horse was high spirited and restless and disarranged his rider's aim Capt Lull fell fell shot three times by a murderous hand after he had surrendered Capt Lull was my husband Is it surprising that I grow restless at the sight of these flaming posters which show James the hero villain in his glorious ride from Kansas City while they represent with contemptuous pity the detectives ride to death Is it not indeed an outrage not only on myself but upon every good person in your city that these walls should be placarded with such pictures and the stage given over to teachings which make crime godlike and heroism infamous My husband lingered in agony at Roscoe He sent for me Two days before I heard from him I read in a newspaper while on a sick bed in Chicago of the death of Mr Whicher who after leaving his valuables in the hands of the sheriff of Clay County went to the house of Mrs Samuels mother of the James brothers where he was the same night captured strapped to the back of a horse and taken to an adjoining county where he was murdered in cold blood He too has met a fate hardly worse than the unsanctified horror of his death in being impersonated and held up nightly upon the stage as a dishonored man though he died in the path of duty I hastened to Capt Lull hardly knowing what to believe of his fate for Pinkerton's agency in Chicago had received contradictory reports of the tragedy in the Monogaw woods As I passed the office of Adams Express Company under the Planters House in St Louis I saw a sight which made my heart sick within me It was a long plain deal box directed to Pinkerton's agency at Chicago I passed some dreadful moments in the street before I dared ask what the contents were of this rough coffin It contained the remains of Mr Whicher My own hero was perhaps yet alive With unspeakable dread I hurried forward to my husband I was in time I was with him when his great heart broke I saw the true picture of the appalling tragedy of the Monogaw woods and now I call upon every mother and sister in the land to frown upon the horrible representation placed upon the stage before their sons and their brothers.

MRS LOUIS J LULL"

The Whicher she mentions was clearly stupid, maybe very brave but certainly very stupid. Anyone who worked for the devious Pinkertons clearly abandoned any claim to moral high ground. See below for a 1992 LA Times article on Yeatman's GREAT biography of the James boys:

Yeatman's findings concerning Pinkertons, et. al., it relates to Whicher and likely the above, in a way.

"HAGERSTOWN, Md. — A letter long buried in federal archives indicates the U.S. government helped bomb the home of notorious bandit Jesse James, killing his half-brother and maiming his mother, a historian claims.

"This is the smoking gun," said Ted Yeatman, who for two decades has studied the James gang, which robbed banks, trains and stagecoaches in the Midwest more than a century ago.

"If this thing had come out in the 1870s, it would have been like some new revelation in the Iran-Contra case," he said.

James was well-known as a criminal, although some saw him as a Robin Hood who robbed unregulated railroads and banks suspected of overcharging common people trying to make a living on the Western frontier.

People began pitying James after an explosion Jan. 26, 1875, at the family's log farmhouse outside Kearney, Mo. James was miles away at the time and the blast killed his 8-year-old half-brother and caused his mother to lose her right forearm.

The explosion shocked the region. The Missouri legislature hired an investigator to look into the blast, but he gave up, saying he could not get anyone to testify under oath.

The cause of the blast has been debated ever since.

Initially, historians thought lawmen threw flares inside the house just to illuminate it, and one exploded.

They suspected Allan Pinkerton, director of the Pinkerton National Detective Agency and founder of the Secret Service, was a key player in the attack.

Yeatman said he found a letter last year at the Library of Congress in Washington that proves Pinkerton indeed was involved.

In the letter, Pinkerton wrote to P. H. Woodward, a special agent for the U.S. Post Office in Washington, to keep the postal service abreast of his efforts to apprehend James.

Yeatman said Pinkerton was working for the postal service because the James gang was believed to have looted mail during a train robbery in Gads Hill, Mo.

Then, with fellow researcher Fred Egloff of Chicago, Yeatman found another letter in the National Archives in Chicago that he says shows a Pinkerton agent got a bomb from the U.S. Arsenal in Rock Island, Ill.

"What's the U.S. Army doing handing out explosives to be used against civilians?" Yeatman asks.

In that letter, Civil War Gen. Philip H. Sheridan wrote to the arsenal on Dec. 24, 1874--a month before the explosion rocked the James' home--to introduce the arsenal commander to a Pinkerton agent named R. J. Linden.

Sheridan wrote that Linden was seeking materials from the arsenal to "aid him in arresting certain railroad robbers."

"Linden's visit to the Rock Island Arsenal puts new perspective on the incendiary device used at the James' house," Egloff wrote in a special October issue of True West, a Western history magazine. "If Pinkerton agents intended to use just a flare, or some basic flammable material, they would have had no need of help from government munitions experts."

That the government might have supplied the bomb "does not surprise me at all," California Superior Court Judge James R. Ross, James' oldest living descendant. "It's a logical connection. The Pinkertons were so tied in with the government."

Pinkerton never caught up with James, who was killed by a fellow gang member in April, 1882, in St. Joseph, Mo.

Jesse James' brother, Frank, surrendered the following October, but after several trials walked away a free man."

James Farm, 1877:

[felix]

I will post some personal Spring 1968 pictures of the house/farm when I find them. ... felix

Note: the front of the house is facing EAST. The road to the house/farm is in front of the house and stops there, coming from the SOUTH for about a half-mile or less. There, that main road, running East-West goes WEST to Liberty, say 10 miles or less. That is the best I can remember. (There was no one at the house when we visited, but looking into the North windows we saw displayed the bedroom and clothing with the Pinkerton bomb explosive effects still there.) ... felix

[brstevns]

Have you done any research on Ned Christie?

[Gibson]

How you done any research on Ned Christie?

A bit. Interesting character. Sure stood out, eh? Really tall for the period, 6'4". Probably took a fall for a crime of which he was innocent.

I was researching something on him but got sidetracked by his Zeke Proctor and the "Goingsnake Massacre".

Sorry, I do not know much about old Ned, but from my cursory looks, he was double tough.

[9.3X62AL]

Jay, yesterday's phone call was a genuine pleasure. Many thanks!

The more I think on it, the magazine issue might have been the June 1992 edition. Both it and the Lawton book are among the missing currently, an outcome of having to move for work transfers frequently.

A number of Jay's accounts feature actions taken by coroner's juries. This element of law is a hand-down from old English common law, in which the Coroner (derived from "crowner") sat in a county in a position superior to the Sheriff. The Coroner was the King's representative in a county, intended to keep an eye on the actions of the nobility and to be a check on the power of the Sheriff. In CA, this remains in place by statute, and the County Coroner has jurisdiction and authority over actions of the Sheriff. A death can be classified as 1) Homicide (at hands of another) 2) Suicide (at one's own hand) 3) Accidental (self-explanatory) 4) Natural causes (old age, disease) or 5) Undetermined. These classifications can be determined by 1) Investigation (most common in modern times) or 2) by Inquest, in which a Coroner's jury is empaneled to hear sworn testimony by witnesses in order to arrive at a determination of cause of death. The Coroner's jury is not directly responsible for finding culpability or criminal agency, but as a result of their inquiry such information can be gleaned.

[Gibson]

Guess what tonight will be?

[Gibson]

No guesses? Imagine, that. . .

The Bloody Benders of Kansas:

Here is some lead up information taken from the leatherockhotel.com website. It appears authoritative:

"In late 1870, John Bender, Sr. and his alleged son, John, Jr., traveled along the Osage Trail. Tying their horses at Ern Brockman Trading Post, they spent the night. The next morning Ern took them to see the claims available on this treeless and wind-swept prairie and by night fall they had chosen and filed for their land. Platting records show that the two settled on the western slopes of the mounds that have come to bear their infamous name. Pa, as the senior Bender was called, chose the usual 160 acres in the north-east quarter of Section 13, Township 31, Range 17, in the Osage township. The Brockmann claim was the South-west quarter of Section 13 and touched John, Sr. claim at the corners. That made them near neighbors. (Click on map for enlarged view). His “son” chose a long narrow piece of ground just north of his "Pa" on the South-east quarter of Section 12, in the same Township and Range, which would keep other settlers from being very close to them. John, Jr. did not live on his claim nor make any improvement upon it. The location was in the western part of Labette County, east of Montgomery and south of the Neosho County lines. The only water supply was Big Hill Creek, two miles or so away. They bought a load of rocks from neighbor Mr. Hieronymus, including a huge rock seven feet square and three inches thick. This slab was to be used for the floor of the planned cellar under the house. They brought hay from another neighbor to thatch their shed-like barn. Lumber was brought from Fort Scott, 78-miles northeast, for a framed one-room cabin. Hard workers, they shortly had built the 16 x 24 foot shell of the cabin, a three-sided stone and sod barn with a corral from sapling poles, and dug the first of two wells. In fall of 1871, when the house was about finished, word was sent to Ma Bender and Kate to come to Ottawa by train, 108-miles north of their new homestead. In Ottawa, household furniture and supplies were purchased and loaded into their heavy Army surplus lumber wagon for the return trip. After they settled in, a wagon-cover canvas partition, tightly drawn over upright scantlings, was erected dividing the house into two rooms. The smaller divided area concealed the Bender's living quarters in the rear half of the Inn. Kate placed a crudely lettered sign “Groceries” above the front door. Just north of the house, Kate and Ma planted a combined garden and fruit trees in what was to be an orchard. It was carefully cultivated furnishing an excuse for constant harrowing and digging. The prairie Bender "store" was said to be only 100 yards south of the Osage Trail. That location also made the homestead a good overnight resting spot for travelers."

No idea what is in store. . .

[Gibson]

Bender Cabin:



Back to the "Benders", newly of southeast Kansas. . .

These frontier butchers are fascinating in the sense of being mysterious. Their crimes were ghoulish. They are not on the order of the "Harpes", but certainly revolting.

We have a short background intro but it should be honestly stated that just like the Harpe "brothers", the Bender family relationships are an open question. Some say it was a father, a mother, a din-witted son, and a charismatic daughter. I kind of doubt it. This spawn of Satan likely were not such a nuclear family. The men were both named John and the women were both named Kate, although no one actually can prove what the older woman's name was. I suspect that the the alleged siblings were married or the same as. The older members, God only knows. . . I also suspect that the younger man's dim-wittedness was an act.

kshs.org:

"Two men settled a claim near the town of Cherryvale in southeastern Kansas in 1870. John Bender, Sr., and John Bender, Jr., built a one-room timber cabin with a trap door that led to a stone cellar. Once the lodging was complete, the Bender men sent for the rest of the family, a mother and a daughter, both named Kate. The family outfitted the house with furniture and supplies, and hung a canvas curtain to divide it into two rooms. The Benders turned the front half into an inn and grocery store where travelers on the nearby Osage Trail could find rest, supplies, and a warm meal. Ma and Kate planted a garden and small orchard near the house. By all appearances, the Benders were like most area settlers: a family of German descent who came west for a fresh start."

The Germanic heritage is also questionable. The older two spoke with some sort of accent described as a "guttural intonation". At this late date, no way to discern what their heritage was. I suspect German might be accurate. They were a weird bunch even by the pathetic standards we now have. The mother was a beast of a woman. Big boned, heavy, and rugged in appearance. She was on the order of Marie Laveau in that she claimed "powers", cooked up potions, communed with the dead, etc. Her "daughter" Kate also claimed mystical powers. From all accounts she was a beauty and became bait for unsuspecting travelers. She went around the area and gave talks on "psychic" matters, seances, and such. She even talked up free love and spoke of justification for murder in her various lectures. Young Kate also gained some notoriety concerning her abilities to heal various maladies. Frontier folk were drawn to such "healers". However, she craved the publicity and notoriety and this same notoriety would lead people to eventually, after hearing all of her ideas and seeing her in action, to conclude she was from Satan. And ultimately when everything came out she was the Bender to get the lion's share of the blame.

legendsofamerica.com

" Keeping mostly to themselves, the Benders appeared to simply be struggling homesteaders who worked hard to earn their living like the other area pioneers. Immigrating from Germany, John Bender, Sr. was sixty years old when he arrived to the area; his wife about 55. Standing over six feet tall, John was a giant of a man who, because of his piercing black eyes set deeply under huge bushy brows, earned him the nickname of "old beetle-browed John." His ruddy face, mostly covered by a heavy beard, sullen expression and long hair, often led to him being described as a "wild and wooly looking man.”

Both John and his raw-boned wife spoke with such guttural accents that few people could understand them. Mrs. Bender, a heavy set woman, was so unfriendly and had such sinister eyes, that her neighbors began to call her a "she-devil.” To add to her fierce look, Ma Bender also claimed to be a "medium” who could speak with the "dead” and boiled herbs and roots that she declared could be used to cast charms or wicked spells. Her husband and son were said to have feared her as she ran the household with an iron hand.

ohn Bender, Jr. was a tall, slender man of about about 25 who was handsome with auburn hair and moustache. Speaking English fluently with a German accent, he was said to have been social but he was prone to laughing aimlessly, which led many people to think of him as a half-wit.

Daughter Kate was the "friendliest" of the bunch, speaking good English with just a slight accent and bore cultivated social skills. A beautiful girl of about 23, she was quick to laugh and talk to strangers. She and her brother John often attended Sunday School at nearby Harmony Grove and were readily accepted in the community."

John, Sr.



John, Jr.



Kate, Sr.



Kate, Jr.

[Gibson]

Our wonderful family now had a bed and breakfast, so to speak. Well, if you throw in some purchasable canned goods and such and the occasional seance. . .

The store/inn was in operable and they Benders wasted no time getting customers. They even went so far as to have the younger John ride out on the various roadways and solicit customers by telling them of the inn an d how it would make a welcome respite for them on their journeys. The younger Kate solicited business at her various talks around the area. She very often used her looks and charm to bring in the customers that were most desirable, those with money. You see, they did not kill every patron they selectively killed the ones with cash and valuables. (They did not even get all of those on their first visit.)

Their terror went on for 18 months during this time they robbed and murdered upwards of 13 travelers. They often did it like this:

They would sit their victim with their backs toward the canvas curtain room divider during a seance. The family would then get in on the act by providing otherworldly apparitions for the victim. Then if this person was one to be killed, it would be a sledgehammer blow delivered in stealth by John the elder. Then the body would be dragged back and dropped via trap door, into the basement. (If they weren't quite completely dead, they'd simply slit their throat for good measure.)

After a while people began to suspect something was seriously wrong as to many people were simply disappearing along the Osage Mission-Fort Scott road, the purview of the Benders.

leatherockhotel.com

"As time passed, reports of lost persons became more frequent. In the late spring of 1873, much bitterness was directed to this southeast Kansas area. The Osage township called a meeting to see what should be done. About 75 people from surrounding areas come to the meeting at the Harmony Grove school house in District No. 30. Indignation was running high because of the slanderous insinuations that had been circulated by the neighboring communities against this township due to the supposed disappearance of travelers in that area. Tension at the meeting reached the breaking point when the widely-known Independence physician named Dr. William H. York was reported to have disappeared on the Osage Trail in their area while returning from a trip to Fort Scott. A decision was made to search, under the sanction of a search warrant, every farmstead in the area between the headwaters of Big Hill Creek and Drum Creek. Old man Bender and young John were at this meeting. Three days after the meeting, neighbor Billy Tole was driving his cows past the Bender Inn when he noticed the starving condition of the farm animals roaming about the promises and discovered a starved calf in the pen. Upon further investigation, he found the inn was abandoned. He reported the news, which quickly spread."

McCormick, Wild West Magazine:

"The story of Tole's findings spread throughout the region. People were up in arms over the mistreatment of the animals. Osage Township trustee LeRoy Dick sensed something more sinister, and on the morning of May 5 he went to investigate. After breaking the padlock on the door of the Benders' cabin, he entered the cellar and met with a terrible odor—the stench of death. Looking up, he discovered a crude trapdoor with leather strap hinges, leading to the kitchen. Taking a quick inventory, he found three hammers; an eight-day clock, which upon further examination held a knife; pieces of jewelry; a German Bible; and some of Kate Bender's occult advertising broadsides scattered across the kitchen floor. Dick called for a meeting of residents at the Benders' the next morning, May 6, and men duly came armed with plows, teams and shovels. The spring harvest was on.

Drawn by the putrid smell and congealed blood on the cellar floor, Dick and about 50 other men from the township began their grim search there. But they found no bodies beneath the stone basement slab. By afternoon the crowd of diggers and morbidly curious onlookers had swelled to several hundred. Inside the house Ed York found a pair of spectacles and recognized a solder repair to the silver frame. They were his missing brother's glasses. The search continued outside.

The men exhumed Dr. York's body from the apple orchard and continued the harvest of bodies the next morning. Neither Pa nor Ma nor John Jr. nor Kate was among the planted dead on the property, so all doubt vanished that the Benders themselves might be victims. Quite the contrary, the true extent of the Benders' ruthlessness became apparent. The diggers turned up the remains of at least nine other people in the orchard, including the pair for whom the doctor had gone searching—George Loncher and his daughter. Loncher's skull had been crushed, but it was the state in which they found the girl, said to be about 8, that left the crowd of hardscrabble pioneers horrified. Her skull was intact, but she had a broken arm, among other injuries, and a scarf tied tightly around her neck, suggesting she may have been buried alive.

One of the victims was Henry McKenzie, cousin to LeRoy Dick's wife; he had stopped to visit the Benders on November 6, 1872 (or perhaps the next day), on his way to see his sister in Independence. The killer had crushed the back of his skull (it was thought with a hammer swung from behind a curtain while he sat at a table awaiting supper), slit his throat (likely to ensure he was dead) and stabbed his lifeless body several times (perhaps out of frustration, as the traveler wasn't carrying as much money as expected). The diggers found the bodies of Ben Brown, W.F. McCrotty and John Greary nearby; several other remains went unidentified. They found Johnny Boyle sitting upright in an old shallow well and at least four other suspected male victims off the Bender property. Exactly how many people the Bloody Benders killed between 1871 and 1873 remains unknown, but some estimates range over 20. How much money they made by emptying the pockets of their victims is also uncertain, though a quick tally set the amount at about $5,000. McCrotty reportedly carried $2,600 and Greary $2,000, but at least three of the victims had little more than pocket change. The question remains whether it was more than just greed that inspired the Bender bloodlust.

The grisly finds shook those who lived in and around Harmony Grove and Cherryvale. But the killings also stoked a thirst for vengeance. Someone had to pay for those vile murders. The Benders had fled to parts unknown, so residents singled out Rudolph Brockman, who had courted Kate Bender, for vilification. Surely, he must have known what was going on and had forewarned the Benders. A mob threw a noose around Brockman's neck and jerked him upward while peppering him with questions; as he slipped closer to unconsciousness, the mob eased the rope. They repeated the painful procedure several times without any luck. Mobs rounded up other individuals, and in some cases entire families, and accused them of complicity with the Benders. They even took A.M. King, the preacher from Parsons, Kan., into custody for a while. The finger pointing and rush to judgment in southeastern Kansas had created an air similar to that surrounding the Salem witch trials nearly two centuries earlier.

The hunt for the Benders took on a life of its own. Ed York offered a $1,000 reward for information that would lead to the arrest of the Benders. Kansas Gov. Thomas A. Osborn followed this up in mid-May 1873 with a $2,000 reward for the apprehension of the foursome. Search parties—some legally sanctioned, some not—had little luck. The Bender buckboard was about all that turned up. A sign that had once hung over the inn's front door—John Jr. had scrawled GROCRY on one side, and Kate had printed GROCERIES on the reverse—had been incorporated as a repair into the bed of the Benders' wagon."

The Benders were never found although two women who were thought to be the "Kates" were extradited from Michigan but were ultimately released as there were disagreements as to who they even were.



List of victims discovered:

Order of Disappearances of Victims:
1869 Joe Sowers - not proven as victim #
1871 Mr. Jones - body found in Drum Creek #
1872 2 unknown men - found on prairie #
1872 Henry McKenzie - body mutilated *
1872 Ben Brown *
1872 W.F. McCrotty *
1873 George Loncher & little girl *
1873 Johnny Boyle * - found in well
1873 Dr. William York *
? John Greary *
? Unknown female *
? Unidentified man *
? Dismembered parts of several victims *

[Following the above order]

Money Taken From Victims:
- ? -
- ? -
- ? -
40 cents or $2,000 depending on sources
$36, finely matched team of horses
$2,600, possibly to buy claim build home
$38, wagon, good horse team
$1,900, possibly to buy claim
$10, red pacing mare, $850 saddle
$2,000, possibly to buy claim
- ? -
- ? -
- ? -


* Discovered in Bender’s apple orchard

# Found with crushed skulls and slit throats

[jmort]

Tomorrow morning, me, green tea, and this thread. I want to catch-up and I have no doubt it will be good.

[Gibson]

Going to sound off with another a little later.

[jmort]

The Benders and the Harpes - not a romantic reminder of the Wild West or westward movement. Sick people. Interesting tale nonetheless. Now for the next few holiday days I can stay on top of this most interesting thread if Mr. Jay has the time to post some more history.