Smoking with my .444

[k8bor]

I've been having a lot of fun this year shooting all my lever guns strictly(sp) with open sights. I've actually found that with decent aperture sights, I can consistently hit 4 to5 inch targets at 100 yards.
I thought why not add to the fun and make some smoke with my .444 marlin. It's one of the newer models with the ballard rifling. I don't recall how many grains of fffg fit in there but if I drop tube (used arrow shaft) enough in the cases and seat a 300 gr. lee gc lubed with SPG lube on top so I crush about 1/8" getting down to the crimp groove then crimp it with the lee crimper, that guy shoots in those 4" 100 yard circles!
I didn't chrono these loads yet, but I don't think I would be afraid to cap a whitetail or even a decent size hog with those loads. Lots of smoke and noise to boot. You just can't beat the boom you get with that powder.
I was wondering if anyone knew of any commercial bullet moulds for pure pb that are sized for the .444? I hope no one thinks I'm silly for doing this because all the bpcr shooters seem to use 45-70's or other 45 calibers, but for me, this will have to do.
Any suggestions to improve what I'm doing would be welcome. This is making me think about a Marlin octagon in 45-70 whenever it is that I can afford one.

tnx
k8bor

[Beerd]

Silly? heck no, sounds like a hoot!

If you have some, try 2f powder.
try to figger out a way to get that 1/8" compression with something besides the boolit. (compress first, then seat boolit)
maybe try a thin card wad between powder & boolit.
..

[montana_charlie]

I was wondering if anyone knew of any commercial bullet moulds for pure pb that are sized for the .444?

I might make a suggestion or two about moulds, but I don't know much about the .444 Marlin.
Does it shoot a .430 diameter bullet?
Do you know the actual groove diameter of your rifle?

I looked briefly at my NEI catalog, but all of the .430 designs have bases made for gas checks. Nothing wrong with that...and NEI will ream them out (I believe) if you want that.

However, I don't think you want to use pure lead. WW or one of the lead/tin alloys would be a better choice. But, having the Ballard rifling means you can shoot cast bullets.

I hope no one thinks I'm silly for doing this because all the bpcr shooters seem to use 45-70's or other 45 calibers,

BPCR cartidges (that is cartridges designed when black powder was the only propellant around) come in .38, .40, .43, and .44 calibers...not just .45 and .50.
So, there is really no reason why your .444 can't be fired with BP, just like an actual BPCR chambering...and being a straight case, it may be easier to find a good load than some of the bottlenecked BPCR rounds.

Any suggestions to improve what I'm doing would be welcome.

I can think of a bunch, but without knowing the brand of your powder, and how much you are using, it's tough to know where to start.

I guess the first thing is to find out the actual dimensions of your barrel...
CM

[SharpsShooter]

FFg will likely be a better choice in powder and compress it with something other that the boolit, then seat the boolit on top. That 300gr Lee is not a bad choice at all. Most moulds in the diameter range you will likely require will not be that heavy in the plain base configuration. The Saeco #430 is a PB 265gr FP that is advertised as .430" diameter and has a decent sized lube groove. The GC designs may be the better choice if you want the heavy weight boolits.

It sounds like a blast to me. I shoot lotsa BPCR and see no reason to deny the 444 any of the fun.


SS

[k8bor]

Thanks guys, I think I'll give Lee a call and see if I can get one of those 300's in a mould with the gas check diameter reamed out. I really like that weight. Also, what alloy mix is the best for something like this? Can I make my own, or is there somewhere you have to buy it?
The mould I have drops ww at .432-.433 and I size and lube at .432. The rifle slugs @ .4295. I firelapped it a couple years ago with the Beartooth method and it's a good shooter.
k8bor

[montana_charlie]

Also, what alloy mix is the best for something like this?

Simply stated, a well-fitted bullet with a BHN of 9 is pretty much the most popular among the BPCR majority.
It is possible to add pure lead to WW to get down to that hardness, but I don't happen to know the ratios needed. That method also makes an alloy which is a bit poor in the tin department (in my opinion).

Nineteen pounds of lead and one pound of tin make an alloy variously called 1 in 20, 19 to 1, 20 to 1, and 20:1. Having 5% tin in the mix brings the BHN up to 9, and causes excellent mould fillout.

Can I make my own, or is there somewhere you have to buy it?

You can make your own 20:1 with good results if you can find a reliable source for tin and lead. X-ray lab shielding, and bars of solder are popular substitutes for foundry certified metals.

You can create a suitable alloy from a WW base...especially if you know where to catch newts, own a thong, and are aware of when the harvest moon is present.

There are even BPCR shooters who claim to have good success with bullets cast from straight WW alloy. Of course, you'll have to decide for yourself if that can be true.

I have a little trouble trusting the claims of someone who never goes anywhere without those funny-looking pliers sticking out of his back pocket...and who's jacket and jeans are threadbare around the ribs and hips.
I'm told that wear pattern comes from being unable to 'unhook from a stubborn one' when the local public transit leaves the bus stop unexpectedly.

If you do choose a WW & pure lead mix, I recommend you plan to add enough tin to bring the total up to about 4% of the alloy.
CM

[SharpsShooter]

I have used boolits of straight wheelweights that I annealed in the oven with good results in my 75 Sharps. Groups ran in the range of 1.5 to 2 inches. I have also used a ratio of 16 pounds of PB to 4 pounds of WW. Cast at 850*, I get very good fill out and weight consistency. That is what I have used to produce three 10 shot groups on the same afternoon that were 1.5" at 100yds. I have also used the same recipe for the 360gr 45-70 group buy that ran last year in my 1895 Marlin. Using smokeless, I have run that alloy to 1600+ fps.


SS

[Buckshot]

.............Ah yes, that fine old BP cartridge known as the 10.75 x 63R, or by some as the .444 Marlin . If you want a heavier and somewhat more areodynamic boolit you can use the Lyman 370gr RNPB intended for the 43 Spanish, as below:



The boolit here is the RCBS 370gr FNPB which is their slug for the 43 Spanish. They also use the same design but fattened up to .446" for the M71/84, in 43 Mauser.

The shiny boolit on the right is 'as cast'. In the photo the slugs were paper patched, then sprayed with mould drop out for lube. The process was to lube-size the slug in a .439" die (for the 43 Spanish), then it's sent up through a .432" push through die. Then they're put in a can with paint thinner and the lube is removed.

Next step is to paper patch and spray with the mould drop out (middle slug). After that they get sent again, up through the .432" push through die (slug on the left). The GC's were put in the case upside down with the boolit seated on top. This was smokless shooting and not BP.

You can see looking at the complete loaded round on the right the seating depth, and that the case has a good grip! They were for use in this rifle:



A Greener Martini with a Douglas 44 cal bbl with a 16" twist. That rollover cheekpiece REALLY needs to go. It hurts.

.................Buckshot

[Boz330]

NICE rifle Buckshot!!!!!!

[longhorn]

I think I've seen posts, maybe on MSN BPCR site, referring to it as the ".43 Ballard" with some load info....