7.62x39 cast reload problems

[crackerjack57]

Hello all you fine gentlemen. firstly, thanx for all your advice so far on reloading. I am reloading for a 9mm polyogonal barreled pistol. with your advice getting not only great but awesome results. now reloading cast 30-06 in the 160 and 180 grain lee bullets. just went out this weekend and without a bench got a 1" group with the 160 grain pointed lee cast and checked bullets. dead on center at 100 yards. also did a 1 3/4" group but 3" low with the 180 grain lee cast and checked bullets. (both of these loads I used 16 gr of alliant powder) absolutly awesome results........................................... .................................... And it all went down hill from there.

I slugged my russian sks to a .310 so I have the lee 155 and 160 grain pointed bullets. Sized and checked to .311. pan lubed with 15 gr of alliant powder. Now I have a well mounted scope on this rifle. of the chocate design so its not a loose scope. I can get 6" at 100 yards with the serp ammo but with my hand loads at 25 yards I was shooting 2" left and 6" down. 10-12 shots were in roughly the same general area. put in the surplus and at 25 yards pretty much bang on. WHAT AM I DOING WRONG!!!! at 100 yards i dont know where they went. i also noticed that my bolt didnt cycle properly all the time. sometimes it didnt even kick out the old round at all.

HELP!! where do I start?? I would like to keep working with the alliant 2400 if at all possible?? I have had such incredable results with the 30-06 with it. i cant see going higher than 15 grains with the sks as with the 30-06 i am only using 16 grains. am i thinking wrong?? the 30-06 is a remington 710 bolt if it matters. also the sks is crowned aswell so no issues coming out of the barrel.


HELP!!! There shouldnt be any reason that my results were this dismal!!.

[runfiverun]

sks's work on the gas piston, you have to have enough gas volume to cycle the bolt.
you most likley also have a chrome lined bbl to overcome.
bigger and harder might cure the accuracy issues [which is what i would work on first]
the nose fitting is important probably moreso actually.
then you need gas volume [meaning speed]
you'll probably [maybe] find a happy medium somewhere around 1800-1950 fps.
you should be getting better than 6" groups even with milsurp ammo b.t.w.

[res45]

It's apples and oranges with two different bullet types,weights and velocities so your going to have to work withing those parameters. I have the Choate on my Yugo SKS I set the scope up for one load and use the irons for the other,POI is just going to be different with those different loads.

Alliant 2400 is a good powder for cast loads in the SKS but in some rifles it will not cycle the action reliably. I have issues on occasion with the max. load of 2400 in my Yugo,my Chinese SKS on the other hand will cycle all day long with just 12.5 grs. of 2400 MV@1450 fps.

For SKS rifles that want cycle with the max. load of 2400 I've found that 18.0 grs. of Reloader #7 cycles the action just fine. The newest Lyman Cast Bullet manuals has load data listed for both the Lee X39 design as well as some other powder options. Both my Yugo and Chinese have .312 bores I shoot the Lee .312 TL bullet which drops close to .314 as cast and apply gas check with a .314 push through sizer.

[crackerjack57]

How do I find out what the max load I'd of alliant 2400 for the 7.62x39 sks that I have. Is there a manual or something?

[runfiverun]

lyman number4 cast bullet book i'd gather

[chris in va]

I wouldn't use cast in an AK/SKS action. It jammed my AK up solid, leaving a ring of lead where the piston head fits in the gas block. I was even using a gas check.

[bruce drake]

Chris,

Several questions about your situation with the AK as I fired cast lead in my SKS for many years without any issues other than an occasional lead wash on the end of my gas piston which would come off with a good scrubbing of a mix of ATF, MobilOne and Hoppes#9 (1/2qt-1/2qt-8oz).

what were your powder loads? AKA - What speeds were you trying to achieve?
What boolit were you using?
and how big were they sized?
What Lube were you using? If LLA, were you lubing again after sizing and placing the gas-check on?
Were you firing them semi-auto or full-auto?

Don't discount cast in the AK/SKS rifles. Once you have the proper load you may find you have a winner in that AK.

Bruce

[Jeff Michel]

Ed Harris has an excellent article on reloading the 7.62x39 round. I believe it is a sticky. It will provide you with some insight as to what you will have to overcome with SKS/AK platforms.

[res45]

Ed Harris has an excellent article on reloading the 7.62x39 round. I believe it is a sticky. It will provide you with some insight as to what you will have to overcome with SKS/AK platforms.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=13453

[JIMinPHX]

Please check to see if your gas passages are plugged up or if your piston is sticky.

In the Russian designed semi-autos, I've found it useful to warm up the gas tube & piston to about 250F with a propane torch, then swab in a little Bullplate lube to prevent lead from building up on those surfaces. ATF works well as a lube in that area when you are done cleaning the gun after shooting.

If that SKS is a genuine Russian, take a look at the hardware on the muzzle end of the gun, looking from the front. There should be a number stamped there. Let me know what that number is & then we can start to talk about what kind of accuracy you should expect to see from that rifle.

Try slugging your barrel from both ends & only going in a few inches deep each time. See if the groove diameter that you measure a few inches from each end of the barrel are the same or not.

You say that you are pan lubbing. What lube are you using & how much? Were you using gas checks on the boolits? If so, what checks were you using?

Please pull one boolit from a round that you have loaded & measure it's diameter. Some die sets are calibrated for .308 boolits because that caliber is also used in some American made guns that have American size barrels.

[crackerjack57]

the lube that I am using is paraffin and Vaseline 50/50. gas checks are .014 alum. In the next few days I will slug the barrel from both ends to see what I have for bore diameter. i guess just thinking about it, if the ID is bigger on the business side vs the cartridge side would be a good recipe for poor grouping. never thought about this. I will have time over the weekend to check this out. I will then put the info down.

[Harter66]

My asks is enormous its closer 8x39. It is 305x318 . At the breach end and back bored a 1/4 inch its 305 x316. It will chamber a Lee 323-170 plain based sized to 323 . W/that and 9gr Unique I get 10 shot groups about 2"x3" a 200 gr paper patched boolit sized. 318 it shoots about 4" at 100 but is very touchy about matching brass capacities. It will shoot groups neatly spaced about 6" apart w/mixed brass.

[crackerjack57]

sorry......... on another small part.......... your loading with unique?? thats the pistol powder that Im using for my 9mm??? if you have a moment, please explain more about the unique?? could i use that in my 30/06 aswell?? do you use dacron filler also?

[bruce drake]

do a search for Unique on the forum and you will find reams of information on rifle loads with the powder. Its one of the most popular "light" powders for cast boolits and rifles.

[NYBushBro]

Has anyone used wc844 with a 150-160ish weight boolit with either AK or SKS?

My goal is to shoot the Ranch Dog 311-170 (which i cast at 152 gr-avg.) with a BHN of 22 (WD Lyman #2 using the Lee tester); they are running @ .314+ and I have thought about melting them down and mixing them 50:50 with Pb, just to get the BHN down to 15-16.

[3006guns]

If I could make a suggestion.....no one has mentioned Junior's pig load for the SKS.

After some of the same frustration as the OP, I pretty much gave up on a quick burning powder for lead as it simply wouldn't operate the action. Then I spotted Junior's post and tried 22 grains of IMR4895 under a 175 gr. flat nose with a gas check. The results were astounding....not only did the action cycle correctly, it tossed the brass about ten feet from my Yugo which has a VERY "stiff" action. My group at 100 yards was about three inches.......normal for me with this gun when using military surplus. I backed the load off to 21 grains and my brass now lands about five feet away and my group size is the same.

Yes, the gas check is below the neck but is very tightly crimped.

There's times with a gas operated gun that you just need a slower powder.....period.

[Moonie]

The 4895's work very well in gas guns, they develop lots of gas volume and will cycle at lighter loads than you would expect. In our uppers we have developed the following loads that cycle:

5.56 55-60gr cast 16gr H4895 (Intermediate length gas)
6.8 SPC 134gr cast 18gr H4895 (Intermediate length gas)
300 245gr cast, just enough to run subsonic, I believe it is around 11.5gr or so (carbine length gas)

[crackerjack57]

Hey Jim. you were wanting the measurements of slugging and some numbers...the info from my sks as follows. the case side of barrel slugs at .313, the barrel end at .312 and the only numbers that I could see was something that looked like it was done with a rotary tool of some sort. as best as I could read it said FOC 1318 but im not sure of the "F" could of been something else.

[JIMinPHX]

the lube that I am using is paraffin and Vaseline 50/50. gas checks are .014 alum.

I think that I see your problem. Aluminum gas checks did not play well with any of the chromed bores that I tried them in. They worked well in a plain Jane .30-30 with a regular steel bore, but in a chromed bore they left a terrible, hard to clean out, type of crud behind & did not give me good accuracy. I would suggest that you try some copper checks, after giving that barrel a good cleaning, & see what happens.

Also, you are using a lube that I have never tried. If copper checks don't fix the problem, then I'd suggest trying a well proven high speed lube like White Label Carnuba Red, Lyman Super Moly, Bullshop's Speed Green, etc.

Your bore diameters sound good. A little tighter at the muzzle is not a problem. The writing that you have is not the factory accuracy test number that I was hoping you might find. That gun should still shoot well, it just probably will not want to get you to half moa or anything like that without you doing something substantial to make it happen.

Unique is a good rifle powder for lite to medium loads, but I have never seen it cycle an auto properly. I have seen 2400 & RE7 both work well in a SKS. If you want to shoot at 1,200fps & run the gun as a straight pull bolt action, then Unique may be a good choice. If you want the action to work as designed &/or you want speeds up closer to 2,000fps, then you need a slower powder. I usually load cast in that caliber around 1,800fps for general purpose use.

As was already alluded to by others, the Yugo guns often need a little bit bigger powder charge to get them to operate, like an extra grain or so. If you tune your powder charge correctly, the brass should all drop within a few feet of where you are standing. If you hot rod the charge, the brass may go 30 feet or more.

[crackerjack57]

Hey Jim. The gun that I have does not have the chrome barrel. its just straight steel if that might make a difference. i looked at the barrel after shooting and it was quite clean. afew swipes with a patch and crisp again. as for powder, I loaded with 15 gn of alliant 2400. Im trying 16 and 16.2 gn this next round. im in the process of opening up my sizing die from .311 to .313. I already have it at .312 right now and thought I would try it first.

Im curious about the numbers that are carved onto the gas tube and accuracy?? Im hoping to get 1 1/2" at 100 yards. should this be possible with hand loads? basically my deer gun out to a max of 200 yards? looking at working between 1800-2100 fps. I am also hollow pointing my lee 160 gn mould. not sure what the weight of the final bullet will be yet but guessing about 140-145 gn. this is for down the road though. next years hunting season. just want to get this regular stuff right first.