.45 ACP 200gr SWC load?

[VHinch]

I'd like to work up a reasonably hot .45 ACP 200gr SWC load. I'm familiar with the Cooper load of 7.3(?) grains of Unique under a 215gr wadcutter, and if I recall that load should run up close to 1100 fps from a 5" barrel, but I'd like to tweak that one a tad.

I'll be using a 200gr cast SWC, and I'm not a big fan of Unique, I'd prefer to use either Bullseye or Red Dot. I'd also like to keep the velocity around 950 or so.

I'm sure someone's already thought this one through and done some of the leg work, anyone have a similar successful load they'll share?

[zomby woof]

My Bullseye load for 200 SWC was 4.0-4.2 grns WST. It's not 950 FPS but very accurate.

[ddeaton]

3.7 grs Bullseye for me. I run this in my iron sight pistol. 4.1 grs Bullseye in my red dot pistol. Need a little more umph to run the heavy slide on that one. Of course use lighter springs to match these loads. These loads along with Mihec's 68 clone mold is a killer target load.

[Larry Gibson]

Well, if I recall the Cooper load was 7.5 gr of Unique under a 200/205 gr SWC (preferably the original FB'd H&G 68). I've shot thousands of them in numerous M1911s over the years and that load generally runs 1050 fps out of most 5" barrels. I prefer a 18 - 22 lb recoil spring and a buffere with that load. Very accurate and deadly on jack rabbits and othe critters. Would be/is a good defense load also.

However I most shoot the 200/205 gr SWCs over 5 gr of Bullseye which also is very accurate , makes major for IPSC and is a good defense/hunting load. Velocity runs right at 900 fps from most 5" m1911s and 920 fps from my 5.75" Wilson Comp barrel.

Larry Gibson

[JIMinPHX]

I've had good luck with 4.7 grains of Bullseye at around 850fps with a 200gr LSWC in a .45acp.

The hottest book data that I have for Bullseye & a 200 gr LSWC in that cartridge is in my Hornady book. They list a top load of 6.3 grains Bullseye for around 1000fps. Now that is with a Hornady LSWC that has the criss-cross pattern on the bearing surface. I don't know how well that data will transfer to other LSWC designs. The Hornady book also shows a top load of 6.8 gr of Unique giving around 1,000fps.

If you would consider going to a different powder, my Lyman book shows a top load of 10.6 grains Blue Dot giving just over 1,000fps with their #452460 200gr (#2 alloy) LSWC @17,200CUP. Lyman also shows a top load of 7.5 gr. Unique giving 980fps @ 16,600 CUP.

Edit:
I just noticed that this is your first post, so I don't know how experienced you are with reloading. The loads I listed as top loads are maximums to be approached slowly & with caution while looking for signs of high pressure. If any of this is less than crystal clear to you, then please ask lots of questions.

Thanks,
Jim

& welcome to the board.

[windrider919]

I used Unique for 45ACP loads since 1973, 6.0gr for 200gr LSWC was THE standard load. But last year I switched to Universal with 6.3 gr. It is a full bore 1000FPS in a 5" barrel. It burns cleaner and is just a tad more accurate. I personally stear clear of Blue Dot because it has a history of erratic pressure in semi-auto pistols. In fact the manufacturer recommended in the past NOT using Blue Dot in 45ACP. Besides which in my tests it just was not as accurate as some other powders.

I use a 18lb spring and a Sprinco recoil reducer to keep down frame battering since I shoot all defense level loads, not target loads. "Shoot what you would bring to a gun fight."

[leadman]

I have used Blue Dot in the 45acp semi-auto with no problems and very good accuracy.

In a recent conversation with Alliant, the only cartridges that had restrictions on loading were the 357 magnum with 125 gr. jacket bullets and all loads for the 41 magnum. This info was also published in magazines.

I used a load in my custom Contender barrel in 45acp with the 185 gr. jacketed and a large amount of Blue Dot. Enough to push it to 1,800 fps. Not for semiautos, but was fun.

[NHlever]

I used HS-6 for the faster loads in my last 1911, and liked it for that purpose. It seemed easier on the gun, dumped all the empties in the same place, and was accurate.

[VHinch]

However I most shoot the 200/205 gr SWCs over 5 gr of Bullseye which also is very accurate , makes major for IPSC and is a good defense/hunting load. Velocity runs right at 900 fps from most 5" m1911s and 920 fps from my 5.75" Wilson Comp barrel.

Larry Gibson

That sounds like a pretty good starting point. I'm not too terribly hung up on 950fps, 900 should serve the purpose.

My goal here is to create a do all load for .45. If it works, this would be what I practice, train, and carry with, which is why I used the example of the Cooper load as a baseline. I shoot approximately 12k rounds a year, most of it in .45, and probably 8-9k of it being my own reloads, so having one load has some appeal to me.

If you would consider going to a different powder, my Lyman book shows a top load of 10.6 grains Blue Dot giving just over 1,000fps with their #452460 200gr (#2 alloy) LSWC @17,200CUP. Lyman also shows a top load of 7.5 gr. Unique giving 980fps @ 16,600 CUP.

Not totally opposed to branching out on powders, but I load of ton of Bullseye and Red Dot already so I have large quantities of each on hand.

I just noticed that this is your first post, so I don't know how experienced you are with reloading. The loads I listed as top loads are maximums to be approached slowly & with caution while looking for signs of high pressure. If any of this is less than crystal clear to you, then please ask lots of questions.

First post here, been lurking for a while. I've been reloading for almost 10 years, but have loaded exclusively .45 and .38/.357 during that time. In .45 I have traditionally loaded only FMJ and LRN, and have just recently began working with the 200gr SWCs.

[Bull Shoals]

VHinch,
I use 5.0 grs of Bullseye and chrony that load out of my 80 series Colt 5" at 875 fps. Very accurate at 25 yds. Have not shot it at 50 yds.

[softpoint]

A load that uses a different powder, that I've had good luck with in numerous 1911's and my 625's is 6 gr. ww231. Might could work up a tad from that if you wanted

[jsizemore]

4.5 grs of Red Dot and it burns real clean.

[JIMinPHX]

W-231 was my original go-to powder for the .45acp about 20-something years ago. Then when 231 dried up for a while, I switched over to Bullseye & that has been my standard powder ever since. I had good luck with blue dot under hot loaded 230-grain HPs @ 950+fps, but that is all I ever used blue dot for in the .45. Bullseye also worked well in that same application & gave similar speeds.

Across the board, blue dot seems to work fairly well for me as long as the powder charge is kept on the warm side. When you start downloading blue dot, spooky things sometimes start to happen. Blue Dot is a bit expensive to use, as you need a lot of it to do the same job that a little Bullseye does. When my can of Blue Dot runs out, I'm probably not going to replace it. I have also seen other people get very good results from Tight Group in the .45acp.

[Dale53]

Here is Hodgdon's data:

200 GR. CAST LSWC IMR 800-X .451" 1.225" 6.9 861 12,200 CUP 7.7 958 15,700 CUP
200 GR. CAST LSWC IMR SR 4756 .451" 1.225" 7.4 875 13,500 CUP 8.2 966 17,100 CUP
200 GR. CAST LSWC Hodgdon HS-6 .451" 1.225" 8.2 860 14,400 CUP 8.4 907 16,300 CUP
200 GR. CAST LSWC Winchester AutoComp .451" 1.225" 6.5 843 11,500 CUP 7.2 914 15,100 CUP
200 GR. CAST LSWC Hodgdon Universal .451" 1.225" 5.8 889 13,900 CUP 6.3 962 16,800 CUP
200 GR. CAST LSWC Winchester WSF .451" 1.225" 6.0 870 15,200 CUP 6.7 970 19,400 CUP
200 GR. CAST LSWC Winchester 231 .451" 1.225" 4.4 771 11,000 CUP 5.6 914 16,900 CUP
200 GR. CAST LSWC Hodgdon HP-38 .451" 1.225" 4.4 771 11,000 CUP 5.6 914 16,900 CUP
200 GR. CAST LSWC IMR SR 7625 .451" 1.225" 6.2 836 13,000 CUP 6.9 952 17,200 CUP
200 GR. CAST LSWC IMR PB .451" 1.225" 5.2 831 12,200 CUP 5.7 915 15,900 CUP
200 GR. CAST LSWC Winchester WST .451" 1.225" 4.4 830 15,400 CUP 5.1 910 19,900 CUP
200 GR. CAST LSWC IMR Trail Boss .451" 1.225" 3.5 652 9,200 CUP 5.5 816 16,100 CUP
200 GR. CAST LSWC Hodgdon Titegroup .451" 1.225" 4.8 877 13,400 CUP 5.4 957 16,800 CUP
200 GR. CAST LSWC IMR 700-X .451" 1.225" 4.6 821 12,100 CUP 5.3 921 16,300 CUP
200 GR. CAST LSWC Hodgdon Clays .451" 1.225" 3.6 759 11,800 CUP 4.3 888 17,000 CUP

Keep in mind that different 200 gr SWC bullets can create serious pressure differences. As a for instance, the H&G #130 seats MUCH deeper in the relatively small capacity .45 ACP case compared to its companion H&G #68. Both run just under 200 grs in my alloy but the pressure difference is measurable (from .5 gr to as much as 1.0 gr difference).

I would suggest the #68 bullet to be a better bullet design for FULL charge loads. You can safely run that one in the above Hodgdon Data and get expected results. It is ALWAYS better to chronograph the load in YOUR pistol to make certain (if you have access to a chronograph). If you are using Hodgdon's data, Titegroup is an excellent choice for the 950 fps area as is 7625 (I have shot a bushel basket of 7625 through my IPSC guns). For slightly less velocity, Win 231 or HP38 (the same thing these days) will give you excellent results and of course with excellent metering in a progressive (as does 7625 and Titegroup). Titegroup is probably the best choice in this group (all are pretty dern good, however) as it ignites easily, measures like water, is position insensitive, and gives the desired velocity at safe pressures.

YMMV
Dale53

[VHinch]

4.5 grs of Red Dot and it burns real clean.

Have you chrono'd this load by chance?

[pdawg_shooter]

I use 8.7gr of AA #5. works great and is accurate.

[35remington]

I know you're asking about other powders, and I'll get to that in a minute-this isn't a thread hijack. However, this needed saying.

I'd advise caution with any load of 7+ grains Unique and a 200 SWC of the H&G 68 pattern.

There's no question the loadings of past years used volumes approximating this level, but I have some doubts about its suitability now, and its correctness for long term use in a 1911. The comment about bullet design variances influencing velocities is especially pertinent here.

The reason I say that is in my own 1911, 7.3 grains Unique (NEW cleaner burning labeling) produced over 1140-1150 fps with a 200 grain Lee SWC of the HG 68 pattern loaded to 1.250" OAL, and over 1085 fps in my 5 inch 625 revolver, which typically gives velocities somewhat lower than a five inch 1911.

That's not something I'd fire for everyday use in a 1911, no matter how it was sprung. FWIW, over springing a 1911 to compensate for "heavy loads" may lead to malfunctions wherein the slide starts outrunning the magazine, and bolt over base misfeeds may occur. The probability of this particular type of malfunction occurring increases with the increase of recoil spring poundage ratings, especially with notoriously undersprung magazine brands that try to cram 8 shots in a flush fit magazine. With properly sprung seven shot magazines it is much less of a problem and the heavier recoil spring weights can be used within reasonable poundages.

I'd start with lighter loads initially, and adjust after chronograph results show you which way to go. My suggestion is to start in the six grain range, and likely you'll end up in the 6.5 grain vicinity for near 1000 fps from a five inch 1911.

FWIW, 6.5 Unique, the Lee bullet above loaded to 1.250" and shot in my 4 inch Ruger P97 obtained the following velocities:
948
949
959
971
957

As for Red Dot, I find that it makes an economical 45 ACP powder that gets good velocities at low charge weights. It gets higher velocities than Bullseye with same charge weights, which seems to confirm the claim it burns faster than Bullseye in metallic cartridges.

5.2 Red Dot with the same Lee HG pattern 200 SWC mentioned above loaded to 1.250" gets the following velocities from a 5 inch 1911:
956
971
962
965
970

In the FWIW category, same bullet, charge of 4.0-4.1 grains Red Dot (my fixed cavity throws a "tweener" weight that's not a round figure):
805
821
822
819
828
837
829

On edit: Larry's recommendation of Bullseye is certainly a good one and +1 from me and no, I'm not waffling. The advantage to Bullseye is that it meters somewhat better than Red Dot, but RD meters sufficiently well for full power loads that you envision, and despite "metering" differences variations in velocity are no greater than powders that "meter better."

In addition, you'll likely not double charge a case with about 4.5 grains or more of Red Dot due to its bulk making a double charge visually apparent. This helps reduce velocity variations too.

Of course, double charging a case with 5.0 grains Bullseye isn't likely either if you make any attempt to look at case fill before you seat the bullet, but it is possible with a target load double charge of 3.5 grains. At these very light levels Bullseye is superior to Red Dot IMO as some measure openings will bridge the charge of Red Dot and throw the occasional squib - happens with any relatively large flake powder. I never use Red Dot in charges of 3.5 grains or less, and really prefer the lightest used to be 4.0 grains or more.

That's light enough anyway.

[softpoint]

IMHO, 1000fps. is the upper level for any 200gr.SWC in the 1911 before you start to beat up your pistol. A friend and I played with the .45 Super 3 years ago, with springs up to 32lbs. We abandoned that round as being too hard on a 1911 platform. I still shoot .45 Super on occasion in my 625's.

[Dale53]

I would like to second 35Reminton's suggestions. They make good sense. My personal limit with the H&G #68 is 1000 fps in a .45 Auto (1911 platform). I personally know of one slide cracked in three places trying to run a H&G #130 too fast (using data meant for the #68).

Frankly, nothing you are apt to shoot with this load will be able to tell the difference between 1000 fps or 1100 fps. It's not worth the risk of damaging your 1911.

Most of my .45 ACP and Auto Rim cartridges, these days, are at target velocities (4.0 gr of Bullseye or equivalent) whether in my 1911's or my 625's.

Dale53

[VHinch]

35remington- Great post, thanks.

Couldn't agree more on keeping the velocity below 1000fps, for all the reasons mentioned. My target velocity is 950, and I think I'd be satisfied anywhere in the 900+ range.

I've rolled up several test rounds this evening, and I'll be getting to the range over the next day or so to test.

So far, I've loaded 10 each of the following for both Bullseye and Red Dot, all matching headstamps and weighing each charge to ensure precision for the sake of consistency in testing.

4.5 - I'm sure this is too light, but for starting low for safety
4.7
5.0
5.1
5.2

I like Bullseye, and I've shot a ton of it over the years, but I'm really hoping for the Red Dot to work out best, as I seem to find more accurate loads with it. I also have nice sized quantities of both it and Promo on hand, which is another plus.