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Thread: 35 Whelen powder

  1. #21
    Former boolit designer

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    Back from the range:

    here is what I tested

    RCBS 35-200
    IMR4198
    32gr, 33gr and 34gr
    Most were hang fires, NOT good. A definite "click'' then ''boom'' kinda reminded me of a slow caplock muzzleloader firing.

    Targets were fair, but I'm not saving any because I'm not dealing with hangfires.

    this powder is out

    next was the IMR4350 with reformed R-P cases, Wolf LR primers
    RCBS 35-200gr boolits 215gr sized and checked wt, .358 sized w/ gator checks

    50gr and 51gr gave about 2" groups at 50yds
    52 and 53gr opened up to 5" of random hits at 50yds

    no leading in the barrel at all from any shots.

    I suspect I may need to water quench these boolits

    My 170gr HP NOE 360180 boolits with 51gr of IMR4895 printed an inch group at 50yds, the usual,
    and the 358009's also printed an inch group at 50yds, forgot the powder charge on them, the usual.

    I'm just having a devil of a time with the 200gr inbetween.
    Last edited by Blammer; 11-02-2012 at 04:16 PM.
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  2. #22
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    Blammer thanks for the report, may be time to switch to 50/50 h2o dropped alloy. Did you have the H380 on hand/ if so I sure would give it a try. FWIW, a tuft of dacron will get rid of the hangfires with 4198, just be sure to use enough to fill the space between the powder and base of the bullet.
    Hell, I was there!

  3. #23
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    I do have H380 on hand, I'll try it too.

    I looked at my notes and discovered there is a "window" of powder charges with IMR4895 I have not tried. The H380 and the IMR4895 are next up, along with WQ some cast boolits next time I cast.
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  4. #24
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    Ok, made up some Water quenched WW's, sized checked and lubed. I'll give them a go with a few other test loads.

    I think I'll give IMR 4350 another run with the same components as above except with the WQ WW's. Ought to be interesting.

    I suppose by the time I get to testing them they'll have aged appropriately so they'll be pleanty hard.
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  5. #25
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    Back from the range and here are some results.

    35 Whelen

    First up is a direct comparison

    earlier I had tested the RCBS 35-200 Air Cooled with IMR4350
    50 and 51gr gave me about 2" group at 50 yds



    I decided to test this again, all components the same except with WQWW's.

    Knowing that 53gr of IMR4350 produced a vastly different results, 3x5" group vs the 2"x2" group I started close and worked up.

    I shot this at 75 yds (yes farther)
    RCBS 35-200 Water Quenched WW's (WQWW)
    IMR4350
    51gr produced an honest 1"x1-1/2" group for 5 shots
    52gr produced two groups of two (holes cutting each other) and the 5th one 1" away making this a 1.5" group

    I am STOKED! Taaadaaa! I have victory! Yes the WQ did the trick!

    Next up with WQWW's is IMR4895 with the RCBS 35-200

    46gr through 51 gr was very accurate.

    The one that really shined was the 51gr of IMR4895

    4 shots into sub 3/4" and the 5th a giddy flyer on my part ( I was excited and wasn't concentrating) it was 2" high and 2" outside

    so YES WQ does help.
    Last edited by Blammer; 08-30-2016 at 06:41 PM.
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  6. #26
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    Blammer; looks like you are moving in the right direction, good! To bad you didn't have a powder that falls between 4350 and 4895 to try, wait you do H380~! Good job and keep posting.
    Hell, I was there!

  7. #27
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    I waited 13days well close enough to two weeks after water dropping them to test them. I figure according to everyone they should be good to go after that long a time.

    Now.... Will they work on deer?

    I suspect they may.
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  8. #28
    Boolit Master Marlin Junky's Avatar
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    How fast do you want to go? I'm looking at a 10 shot group in my notebook that was shot at 75 yards that's right at 1"... 2-bit size if you eliminate two stragglers (one at 12 and one at 3 o'clock). SAECO 356 at 200 grains checked, 450F heat treated wheel weights and 26 grains of WC-820 (1900 fps).

    There's another 5-shot group in here that was shot with SAECO 352 at around 250 grains that went into 1/2" at 75 yards. It was heat treated and drawn back to BHN 16, propelled by 37 grains of Surplus 2200 and again, the velocity was right around 1900 fps.

    If this can be done with ** surplus powders (sans filler) it sure can be done with 4759 on the light end and Re-7/3031 on the heavy end. Sorry I don't have any data for RCBS 35-200 in this cartridge but I betcha 35 grains of IMR 4198 and RCBS 35-200 at right around 215 grains should put you near 2000 fps with less than 25K PSI. If you want to fill the case a bit more, start with 40 grains 3031 and bring your chronograph to check extreme spread and standard deviation. The latter combo will probably do less than 20K PSI in a 24" barrel but you'll be able to shoot a softer alloy.

    MJ

  9. #29
    Boolit Master bearcove's Avatar
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    Thanks for the update. Going down that road soon.

  10. #30
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    I just tried a new load this A.M. 50 grains of AA2520 behind 358318 ACWW book says 2373 fps the book lists a 358315 @2739fps with 54 grns AA2520. My load was extremely accurate. Only 3 rounds tested , am loading more today to test.

  11. #31
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    My "standard" RCBS 200 boolit load is 38 gr of 4198 in reformed Rem 30-06 cases, cci mag primer. Under 1/2 inch at 50, obout 1 inch at 100. Stout load that was worked up to in my Mauser with A& B barrel. For groundhogs I use 57 gr of 3031 under a 150 Rem jacketed soft point. Vaporizes a vermin.
    Caution.... stout loads that were worked up to in my rifle.

  12. #32
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    Now I'm AMAZED! Surprised is a good word too.

    I broke out the chrony and decided to shoot a few of my new fav load over it.

    the 51gr of IMR 4895 with Wolf LR primers, in 30-06 winchester reformed brass
    RCBS 35-200 Water quenched WW's.
    in my Marlin XL7 35 whelen with the 14T Shilen Barrel

    chrony set at the length of the cable for the reader box thingy

    2475FPS! That is smokin' fast in my book, all that I ever wanted. I'll stop now and load a bunch for shooting and hunting!
    That is 220gr jacketed bullet velocity. My cast wt's about 210gr or so.
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  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blammer View Post
    Now I'm AMAZED! Surprised is a good word too.

    I broke out the chrony and decided to shoot a few of my new fav load over it.

    the 51gr of IMR 4895 with Wolf LR primers, in 30-06 winchester reformed brass
    RCBS 35-200 Water quenched WW's.
    in my Marlin XL7 35 whelen with the 14T Shilen Barrel

    chrony set at the length of the cable for the reader box thingy

    2475FPS! That is smokin' fast in my book, all that I ever wanted. I'll stop now and load a bunch for shooting and hunting!
    That is 220gr jacketed bullet velocity. My cast wt's about 210gr or so.
    DJ, now that you have found that out, I recommend you find a slower load for hunting. Shoot one deer with a load that fast, and you will find you do not have much left to eat.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  14. #34
    Boolit Master JesterGrin_1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waksupi View Post
    DJ, now that you have found that out, I recommend you find a slower load for hunting. Shoot one deer with a load that fast, and you will find you do not have much left to eat.
    It all depends on the distance. As I remember he was looking for a 200 yard load. Now if he shoots something close lol.
    If one sits in thundering quiet the soul dies slow instead of yell to the heavens for all to hear and behold the righteous and upstanding and ones of which should be held with tales of woe. By C.A.S. <--- Thats Me lol.

  15. #35
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    yea, I was looking for a 100+ out to 200yd load.

    I may have to develop a slower, close in load. Have that one loaded and if I see one WaY out there, swap ammo.
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  16. #36
    Boolit Master

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    I'm with Shuz. ACWW 358009 over 4064 or 4895. Makes a really nice pile driver!
    It ain't rocket science, it's boolit science.

  17. #37
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    In for the load info

  18. #38
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    Every time I experience less than desired accuracy, the first thing I do is go to a fatter bullet. I tried to reread the posts and the only reference I saw to diameter was a hand written note on one of your targets at .358". Can we discuss that? I have a 35 Whelen and shoot the RCBS 200 and the Saeco 245 in a 1/16 twist, and have only tried .360" bullets.

  19. #39
    Former boolit designer

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    The reason I only went with that dia bullet was that was the fattest that would chamber. It being a custom barrel and all the tolerances on the rifling were pretty tight, so the .358 was it, and it filled the grooved fully.
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  20. #40
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    My rifle shot it's best with a middle of the road charge of AA2230 and a 280 gr nose rider bullet from accurate sized .360. 4198 was inconsistent for me. Paco Kelly's H414 load is fast and Very powerful.
    Good results were obtained with a case full of WC 860 and a 4198 kicker. PM me if you would like charge weight info.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check