Help retired Machinist, Tool & Die Maker guys

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

I hope I asked for the right guys in my post as I was guessing you fellas could help me with my problem. I've got a good friend I've done gun smithing with for years. He's always been the machinist side of our combo and I'm the hand fitting guy. His Dad was a machinist, owned a lathe and he grew up standing on a milk crate learning to operate it and has that lathe today (his father's lathe). I was an armorer in the service, then got out and took all the hand work courses at the gun smithing school, about the same time as he was taking the machinist courses.

Okay, enough of the background stuff. For years, my buddy has been using a steady rest tipped with brass bushings to stabilize/hold work at the business end when doing barrel work such as cutting crowns, etc. He's excellent (sometimes amazing) at the work, but the bushings always leave a mark on the barrel that requires a good bit of time and effort getting out, slowing down getting the work out the door.

We've been good friends for many, many years now and I would very much like to acquire a set of roller bearing tips for his steady rest that would not leave such a mark or leave less of a mark.

Here's the information on the lathe he has:

South bend 9" Precision Lathe (4 1/2 bed?) Model A, 110 volt motor with a usable length for gun smithing of 40 inches. I think over all length was 54 inches, leather belt driven.

The lathe he owns looks a lot like the lathe advertised in this link:

http://www.junkyardfind.com/item.php?id=712

I think the total bed length is 54", but I'm not positive. I got the information over the phone with him, but he's not the best when providing information over the phone and he was busy and I was trying not to let him know why I was asking.

He told me at the time he ordered parts for the lathe from South Bend, a steady rest with roller bearing tips for that 9 inch lathe was not available as an option, possibly because of the size, but he felt it should be, because when working with gun parts/barrels, the parts are small enough he can use one. This one looks like the one he has now:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-TELESCOP...item5d35191c60

What he wants is to replace the brass tips(name?) with roller bearings tips to minimize work marring. Something like these:

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/c...PICT0002-1.jpg

Here's the information on how these were made for a 10L steady rest:

"The bearings are 1/2" diameter by 3/16" wide, and have a 1/4" axle hole. If I remember right, I got them from ENCO, but they should be available just about anywhere. The axles are mild steel - I used 12L14. Unfortunately I don't have any drawings of the parts, but you can do what I did and just copy the brass tips and then mill slots in them to accept the rollers. I reamed the axle holes in the tips for a close fit with the axles, which were also knurled on one end to help hold them in place. This was one of those typical jobs where you just get started and make it up as you go along.

Oh yeah, I also made the tips from 12L14 - I think I used 3/4" diameter and then turned it down to the diameter of the fingers - it's been a while... But it's a pretty straightforward job."

Here's the help I need:

I have no idea where to get steady rest roller bearing tips that would fit his steady rest, no idea what part number he might need, no idea how to go about getting that part number. I would prefer to buy an American made part if possible, used in excellent shape that will match the lathe's age/appearance and be "right" for that lathe if that makes sense. I would also be happy with getting somebody to make these for me from this forum. I just ask that the roller bearing be a common part so that should one fail, he can get another bearing and replace it from shelf stock locally.

I remember when he brought it home after his father passed. It was covered in grease/cutting oil mixed with metal shavings and the leather drive belt had dried up. Next thing I knew, he had cleaned it up and it looked like a brand new lathe ready to go on a production floor. The grease had totally protected the old lathe. He got new leather drive belts from somewhere and the lathe runs smooth as glass.

Can you fellas help me get my buddy roller bearing tips or help me figure out how to make such a critter? I figure if it isn't sold, the holders for those brass tips could likely be modified to take a roller bearing or a tip with the roller bearings like the one pictured above could be made pretty easily by a knowledgeable machinist. I think he could probably make them for himself, but he's hip deep in guns to repair and doesn't have time, so I figured I'd get them for him for a Christmas gift.

One last thing: I'm not a machinist, not even a hobby one. I'm an armorer with and have a very high level of hand fitting skills. I can use a hacksaw and a file to make gunsmithing tools and small parts, but I have ZERO training on a lathe or a mill and don't have the machinist technical language. Which is why I'm needing some help.

Thank you for your help.

[bruce drake]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-TELESCOP...item5d35191c60

currently on Ebay with 6 available.

Bruce

[bruce drake]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/South-Bend-9...item3a7adbde2f

Here's an older original South Bend model

[leftiye]

Find or make some ball bearing rollers that will thread onto the ends of his existing steady rest's fingers (turn down and thread the fingers).

[32ideal]

Best answer is a tight fitting sleeve to fit over the barrel/part area I wanted to protect if it had to be kept in original condition, you can also make adjustable sleeves that have a small amount of clearance and attach with multiple set screws against small pieces of aluminum shim to protect area where they go against the barrel, both sleeves must be trued on part between centers before use with the steady rest.
Roller bearings may still make marks on the item you are turning and do not work well on tapered surfaces like barrels, true straight round stock they are great on, they can cause lots of damage especially if a stray chip gets between part and rollers.
32ideal

[Lefty SRH]

What about a tough plastic insert instead. I know delrin is quite cheap and rather tough.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-TELESCOP...item5d35191c60

currently on Ebay with 6 available.

Bruce

He already has one of these, I'm looking to get roller bearing tips for this type steady rest.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Best answer is a tight fitting sleeve to fit over the barrel/part area I wanted to protect if it had to be kept in original condition, you can also make adjustable sleeves that have a small amount of clearance and attach with multiple set screws against small pieces of aluminum shim to protect area where they go against the barrel, both sleeves must be trued on part between centers before use with the steady rest.
Roller bearings may still make marks on the item you are turning and do not work well on tapered surfaces like barrels, true straight round stock they are great on, they can cause lots of damage especially if a stray chip gets between part and rollers.
32ideal

While a nice idea and a good solution, this would take way too much time with the quantity and variety of barrels he works on. He wants the roller barrels to reduce marking on barrel's he's typically doing crown or chambering work on. The roller bearings he felt was the best solution, he just hasn't had time to implement it by locating or buying the roller tips. He's got enough work coming in he simply doesn't have the time to make a lot of tools any more, he needs to be able to stick with doing the gun work itself. Hence this post.


Additionally, most barrels will be polished/blued after barrel work, so minor marks are acceptable. The brass marks take a good bit of time to get the brass off and to clean up the marks made on barrels.

As far as chips go, typically the distance between the rest and where he's doing the work is enough that chip damage is not a concern.

[deltaenterprizes]

+ 1 on 32ideal's idea. I made a small spider with 4
1/4 brass screws on each end from a water pipe scrap I turned and polished on the outside to run smoothly in the steady. Bronze bushings of various sizes are available from bearing supply houses and can be heated to expand for installation and removal and only cost a few dollars.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

What about a tough plastic insert instead. I know delrin is quite cheap and rather tough.

A roller type tip or a tip that the delrin could be replaced would be good for already finished barrels. For that matter, a roller bearing with an outer covering of delrin would be a good idea.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

+ 1 on 32ideal's idea. I made a small spider with 4
1/4 brass screws on each end from a water pipe scrap I turned and polished on the outside to run smoothly in the steady. Bronze bushings of various sizes are available from bearing supply houses and can be heated to expand for installation and removal and only cost a few dollars.

A picture of these things would be helpful. I can't make them though, I'm not a machinist I don't own any powered machinery, as he's the partner that handles that and he doesn't have the time. I do the hand fitting, polishing, lapping and such as that.

Hence why I want to get him a nice Christmas gift that'll increase the through put that he doesn't have to make.

Perhaps both these items (roller bearing tips and bushings) would be worth while to have made. What I want to do is be able to give him a nice "gift set" of this stuff he can start using immediately. He already spends more time making tools to do specialty work than we can afford with the demand we've got. Atlanta's a big town with very few gunsmiths and lots of repair work needed. Easy to get buried here.

[Nobade]

Aw, you guys are making it too hard! What I do is two turns of electrical tape around the barrel with the ends butted up to each other, making sure to wrap in the right direction. A little way oil on it and it'll run in the steady rest for long enough to cut the crown, just keep it wet with oil. Doesn't leave any marks on the barrel at all.

Been doing barrels this way for years and never had a problem yet.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

A roll of electrical tape and a can of way oil. What a Christmas gift! Gotta love it and wonder why he didn't think of that. Wait, he's Polish, that explains it.

[dragonrider]

"they can cause lots of damage especially if a stray chip gets between part and rollers."

That is the reason I don't use roller bearing tipped arms in a steady rest. Brass only for me. Brass tips will sweep chips and most trash away if it fits the radius of the workpiece well. Plus roller bearing do not offer enough surface contact to control vibration.

[theperfessor]

I have a roller bearing equipped steady rest for my 15" Clausing and I can confirm that getting a chip under the bearing will not only mark a surface badly, it can also explode what is nothing more than a roller bearing. I always keep a few around as replacements/spares for when that happens.

They're a nice alternative but not without potential problems.

[bob208]

i have made fingers with the bearings for a ac-delco altenator. use the ones for a 75 and older. drill tap and mount them on the fingers. have done many barrels and other long things with them.

[Reg]

Bronze or brass tipped steady rests will impact with grit or metal flakes and scour the surface of the barrel. Roller bearings tend to press the surface in leaving their mark or if you get a small part of metal swarf rolling through the rollers, it will really mark things up. The only safe way I have ever found to work on a barrel and leave no marks whatever is by using a "cat head".
If I could reduce picture sizes to put on here I would just send a pic of one in use but for what ever reason I tend to have trouble every time I try.
Will try to explain it.
Mine is made from a 3 inch long piece of 1.5" ID x 2.5" OD seamless tubing. One half inch from each end it is drilled and tapped 1/4"x20 tpi. Both ends are drilled and tapped and they are in line with each other. 1/4" x 1 inch set screws are set in all 8 holes and are set up on the outside of the tube with jam nuts. It is slid over the barrel ( that is already set up on centers in the lathe) and by using the set screws, is made to run dead true ( both ends) by adjusting the set screws in and out. Kind of like setting a double ended, 4 jaw chuck. It is protected from touching the barrel by shims made from a hard hack saw blade and they can be held in position with masking tape. When true, the jam nuts are set. They do not need to be overly tight. Then the steady rest is set in place on the center of the cat head. This way if a small chip or what ever runs through the contact points, it will scratch the cat head and not the barrel.
I know this sounds like Greek but it's one of those things that actually takes much longer to explain than to do. You do have to know how to read and run a dial indicator. One side benefit of this system is it fits all barrels, you do not need a different sleeve for each barrel and in the case that I have done several times, you can actually offset the barrel, say like if you want to fit a .22 rimfire barrel to a old single shot action that was in 25 or .32 rimfire. You first have to determine where that firing pin is actually striking, most I have seen are either at 6 o'clock or at 12 o'clock. Measure the needed off set and then with the cat head running true in the steady rest, you can turn the barrel extension to a correct fit.
Hope this make sense. If needed , send me a PM and I will send pics to your e-mail address.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

i have made fingers with the bearings for a ac-delco altenator. use the ones for a 75 and older. drill tap and mount them on the fingers. have done many barrels and other long things with them.

That sounds a lot like what I first envisioned.

[jmorris]

What if you worked over some roller lifters out of an automotive engine. Cutting them down might make you need an abrasive saw but with a lathe the bushings to mate the two should be easy.

Then again if you have a lathe you could machine a bushing that goes over the barrel and gets tight, sort of like an H with a hole in it and use what you already have.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

What if you worked over some roller lifters out of an automotive engine. Cutting them down might make you need an abrasive saw but with a lathe the bushings to mate the two should be easy.

Then again if you have a lathe you could machine a bushing that goes over the barrel and gets tight, sort of like an H with a hole in it and use what you already have.

Unfortunately, I don't have the skills to do this and my buddy is backed up enough now with gun work I'm trying to discourage him from making tools. Every time he stops to make a tool, we lose time working on guns and we're already 6-9 months out of where we ought to be.