Cast boolits in sabots?

[Arkansas Paul]

Hey all,

I think I'm going to give cast boolits a whirl paired with a sabot in my inline muzzle loader. I already cast 255 grain boolits for my .45 Colt, so I ordered some sabots from Midway to try them with.

My question is, since I'm using the sabots, should I use pure lead or go with clip on wheel weight lead. I know usually you're supposed to use pure lead for ML, but didn't know if using the sabot had any effect. It may not matter with this application. What do you guys think?

[OnHoPr]

Generally, the sabots can shoot anything. You can put j-words in them and very hard alloys or BHN's. Depending on how much powder you use can make a slight difference. Such as, loading Pb's with 150 gr loads might cause boolit deformation on ignition. The sabots do not work very well with GC boolits without the GC. If your boolit style is flat besed you should be fine. I use a Lee .429-240-2R in a Harvester sabot cast 67% Pb - 33% WW. This alloy helps prevent boolit deformation and with 120 gr of Pdex Select I still get good expansion.

[Maven]

OnHoPr's point about CB hardness and jacketed bullets in sabots is well taken. I've had great success using WW CB's with sabots in my Knight Bighorn. They were plain based Lyman & RCBS Keith designs, which I also use, without sabots of course, in my Ruger SBH. Btw, here is another source for sabots: http://mmpsabots.com/

[Whiterabbit]

Since I shoot barnes boattail sabots for the inline (290 grain TMZ) with decent enough accuracy, I wanted a cast lead round to shoot the same POI for practice. Since the sabot is designed for a boat tail, I found that the LEE cast 300 grain 452 gas check bullet WITHOUT the gas check shot wonderfully well. And is exactly what I shoot as my plinker bullet.

[Arkansas Paul]

What kind of on game performance are you seeing? Just curious.

[Potsy]

I smacked a 180lb (dressed) deer with a 270SAA out of my knight last year.
Load was an old knight black sabot, that boolit, 100grn. FFG (Goex), and a musket cap.
Boolit was WW metal and shot (50/50) with 2% tin. I can't remember if I heat treated it or not.
It was a frontal shot at less than 25 yards. Enterered the sternum, bone shrapnel pretty well shredded the lungs, it knocked boolit sized hole through the top half of the heart, went through the liver, and stopped somewhere in the stomach (wished I would have dug for it).
He limped off about 75 yards (amazing how much they can soak up and not flop over) and died.
I'll be packing said same in that rifle this year.
FWIW, I shot .44 240 XTP's for years out of that gun. Killed plenty of deer with them. But it just seemed a little more satisfiying to kill one with a boolit I had made.

[OnHoPr]

I'm pretty assumed that your .45 255 gr boolit will do very well in Pb mode with 70 - 100 gr of powder or any mix of WW and Pb from 90 - 150 gr of powder. If you are concerned, hollow point that boolit.

[curator]

I wish someone would have asked this question of OnHoPr before. It would have saved me some powder, sabots, and lead. Cast boolits made for GCs do not shoot as accurately as plain based boolits in muzzle loading sabots. However, my .45/280LBT LFN boolits made with 25/75 WW/pure lead shoot very accurately in cheap sabots. Performance is excellent on both small (Florida) deer and big hogs. The Lee .45/255FN boolits are OK but no way the penetration of the longer, heavier 280 grain slugs.

[Whiterabbit]

try sabots for boat tails. Knight makes them and Barnes has some made for them also.

[OnHoPr]

try sabots for boat tails. Knight makes them and Barnes has some made for them also.

Do they make a spitzer, semi-spitzer, or nose similar to the .30 Lee 2R molds for those particular sabots. Because, that would be interesting and wind defying for those 300 yd shots. Hey, I like sitting in open fields sometimes. I smoke, fart, sneeze and my eyes are getting too old for peering in brush all day. That way the deer can't hear or smell me if I sit appropriately.

[TKG]

I shoot a .50 cal. Thompson Center Grey Hawk. I use a 230 grn. 45 ACP boolit, hard cast--sized to .452 dia.-- in a Hornady .50 cal. (black sabot). It is possible to hit a square quart oil bottle at 100 yds from the bench with fair regularity. I usually load 90 grns. of Pyrodex. My Grandson took a small white tail deer with this combination with out any problems. This is one way to up the muzzle velocity on your black powder rifle and extend the range a tad bit. I have no idea how fast it shoots.

[10 ga]

I shoot cast in all my MLs. For round ball and sabot bullets use the same alloy mix of 1-1+2% using COWW-soft and tin. For conicals, ie. REAL and minnie bullets use close to pure as I can get.
Shoot 275 and 300 grain .451 and .458 bullets in the sabots. flatter the base the better. Use the black crush rib sabot for the .458s in 300 gr. bullets and red sabot for the 275 gr. 451 bullets. Performance is excellent. Both bullets have pretty good meplat and I have never recovered one from a deer no matter what angle or range I was shooting.
There are only 2 manufactures of sabots and they are MMP and Harvester. Go to their websights and you can get packs of 50 or see what they have and get them from Natchez/Midway/Southern Shooter Supply etc... in 50 packs.
If you use sabot/bullet and real Black powder or any sub powder, other than Blackhorn 209, loading the second shot is real hard and the 3rd near impossible unless you swab the barrel. If you can load second and 3rd shot without swabbing your sabot/bullet fit is too loose. Grease cookies under the sabot help a little but are a PITA.
I have a BRP mold for sabot bullets and it is really nice. BRP is no longer in business but if you post in the "want to buy" forum someone may have one to sell and of course watch the "for sale" forum too.
Best, 10 ga




lead x

[Whiterabbit]

Do they make a spitzer, semi-spitzer, or nose similar to the .30 Lee 2R molds for those particular sabots. Because, that would be interesting and wind defying for those 300 yd shots. Hey, I like sitting in open fields sometimes. I smoke, fart, sneeze and my eyes are getting too old for peering in brush all day. That way the deer can't hear or smell me if I sit appropriately.

I shoot the lee 300 grain bullet in mine. does just fine at 100 for minute of deer. Might not make it to 300, but that's fine too.

[Arkansas Paul]

Awesome. I've got 100 Hornady sabots that are supposed to be here Wednesday from Midway. I'm gonna go sight in and give em a whirl on saturday.

[tomme boy]

I tried to use several cast boolits in sabots and did not have very good luck. The sabots seem to need a boolit with a bevel base to seat to the bottom of the sabot. If they were not seated they would always give you a flier.

[quilbilly]

What kind of on game performance are you seeing? Just curious.

A few years back I was hunting Roosevelt elk in sw Washington with a 429 cal 265 gr SWC cast boolit with a sabot in a 50 cal muzzleloader. My last view of a large cow elk (live weight 500# plus) before she disappeared in a cloud of Goex smoke was of her completely off the ground with her feet rotating skyward.

[Whiterabbit]

fantastic description. if you dont mind my asking, how much goex did you pour down the barrel?

[quilbilly]

78 gr of triple F. The range was about 35 yards. The rifle was a T/C White Mtn. Carbine. That vision was why, when the state changed ML seasons for elk and forced me back to modern rifle, I now load my .444 Marlin lever to exactly the same ballistics with the 310 gr. GC boolit.

[GMT210]

I use a mihec 45-270saa HP, with an MMP hth-24 sabot and 100grns of Pyrodex, about to play with Blackhorn. deadly and surprisingly flat shooting. I've cast "pure" stick on wheel weights as well as a 94-2-4 alloy, both shoot very well and mushroom out very nicely. I don't feel the need for the pure lead since I am shooting sabots and will be pushing the velocities with Blackhorn this fall. The current Pyrodex load took 8 deer last year amongst friends that I casted for.

[DODGEM250]

That's all I shoot anymore is my own casts in Harvester sabots.