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Thread: Chamber and throat relationship.

  1. #41
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    This thread could be great if the pictures were still available.

  2. #42
    Boolit Mold
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    I would like to see the pictures as well ;/

  3. #43
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    Ditto

  4. #44
    Boolit Master


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    Well, I'll say it. Without the pics, in my opinion, this does not qualify for sticky status.
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  5. #45
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    So what happened to Badgeredd's photos?
    Did he remove them or is it a site-related issue?
    It's a shame to see such a well illustrated contribution to the site get lessened. Badgeredd's time and generosity with his photo layout has been appreciated by many here. Hopefully the pics will be reinserted and saved for future referrences.

  6. #46
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    Perhaps the all knowing pseudo Gods can put some photos up to replace the ones lost. I no longer give a hoot if the sticky is here or not so the powers that be are welcome to delete it as far as I am concerned.

    Thanks for the appreciation by a few...posts like #45 are the reason I spend little time or effort here. Have a good day fellas. May the Farce be with you.

    Edd
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    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in Government." -- Thomas Jefferson

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  7. #47
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    Thanks...

  8. #48
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    Starting to see what you are talking about...

  9. #49
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    I was able to find the original photos and get them uploaded to Photobucket. I believe I have the original post restored. Thank you to those that have shown interest in the post for your patience.
    Charter member Michigan liars club!

    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in Government." -- Thomas Jefferson

    "Consider the clown(s) just one of God's little nettles in the woods, don't let it detract from the beauty. Sooner or latter you are going to run into the nettles regardless of how careful you are."

    Beware of man who types much, but says nothing.

  10. #50
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    The photos tell the story. Excellent post Edd
    You will learn far more at the casting, loading, and shooting bench than you ever will at a computer bench.

  11. #51
    Boolit Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Here is an example of correct bullet "fit" in my Winchester Model 54 .30-'06 with standard factory barrel and chamber, showing a round which has been chambered and extracted without firing.

    The bullet is HM2-.312-160-5

    Attachment 129706
    The ENEMY is listening.
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  12. #52
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by badgeredd View Post
    I was able to find the original photos and get them uploaded to Photobucket. I believe I have the original post restored. Thank you to those that have shown interest in the post for your patience.
    Thanks those pitchers sure help me understand.
    Lead bullets Matter

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  13. #53
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    Thanks for your time and effort, Edd.
    This is probably one of, if not THE most helpful sticky on the site for the newer casters to start with (more than a few older casters having recurring issues, too). The fact that it sits at the top of the listings in this sub-forum seems highly appropriate to me.

  14. #54
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    Excellent post! Badgeredd, I'm sure this took considerable time to put this post together and I know that I do very much appreciate your time and effort.

  15. #55
    Boolit Master ballistim's Avatar
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    I just found this so I had the benefit of the photos being added, great post badgeredd! I'll be doing my first poundcast and this helps me visualize what I'm looking for.

  16. #56
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    Awesome post, Thanks for all your time and work on this. A great visual aid.

  17. #57
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    Interesting write-up. I only own one rifle and it is a WASR-10 ak variant. I decided to do a little checking. I used a very soft lead .358 slug to check the measurement. My throat is .342 and my groove dia. is .313. I haven't cast anything for it yet, but I'd like to at some point. I knew my .313 groove diameter was going to be challenging to match a bullet too, but I didn't realize my throat was so far out of whack. I've had nice results with jacketed handloads. I never did close the book on my handloads as bullets, cases and supplies became scarce. I left off with 1.5-2.0 groups at 50 yards with iron sights and bullets .002 below groove dia. I felt I left the load prematurely with much to be desired.

    Lee makes 2 bullet molds for 7.62X39r, it sounds like they are the correct design according to other casters of this caliber. But, even if I can get these bullets to size at a nice .313, how are folks having acceptable accuracy results (not pristene accuraccy, but respectable for this rifle) and not dealing with a mess of lead from an extremely oversized throat? I've read the sticky on "The practical dope on the 7.62x39" and the particular problems the writer has with accuracy and the Kalashnikov rifle are never really addressed, just kind of dismissed as being too irritating to deal with or speak of.

    Maybe I am chasing Unicorns, but with my handloading experience I have no reason to believe that a 3in group at 100 yards isn't obtainable with this rifle. If I can achieve this with cast, or Jacketed this rifle will be able to easily fulfill multiple functions (I like to think of it as a survival rifle).

    1. How can the common bullet molds (.312) for this caliber function with acceptable results with throat diameters up to .342?
    2. Am I reading too much into this? I know it isn't a revolver, but when I think about matching bullets to throats, I think revolver principals.

  18. #58
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    Hornady now makes two tools [formerly Stoney Point] that allows one to measure the over-all-length of a cartridge with the boolit touching the lands, these tools work for cast as well as jacketed. After determining the length you adjust your seating to the length you desire. These tools are called: O.A.L. Gauges and Bullet Comparator Set.
    These tools will plainly show that different guns as well as different boolits/bullets all take different seating depths.

    Larry

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Animal View Post
    My throat is .342 ...not dealing with a mess of lead from an extremely oversized throat?

    Maybe I am chasing Unicorns, but with my handloading experience I have no reason to believe that a 3in group at 100 yards isn't obtainable with this rifle. If I can achieve this with cast, or Jacketed this rifle will be able to easily fulfill multiple functions (I like to think of it as a survival rifle).

    1. How can the common bullet molds (.312) for this caliber function with acceptable results with throat diameters up to .342?
    2. Am I reading too much into this? I know it isn't a revolver, but when I think about matching bullets to throats, I think revolver principals.
    I am guessing you've misunderstood part of this. Your throat will be the area immediately in front of where the case ends. The .342" dimension has to be in error. With a .313" grove diameter, the minimum I'd size my bullets to would be .314". As for a design...Lee makes a 125ish pointed bullet that casts .314" in my mold. I wouldn't hesitate to lap one out to get the minimum of .314" diameter. Lee also make a 150ish grain bullet mold that works quite well in AK/SKS design rifles. You SHOULD be able to get groups with cast bullets equal to jacketed groups, but I seriously doubt you can get better groups with cast. LUBE for gas operated semi auto needs to be like baby bear porridge...just right. Too soft or hard of a lube will foul up the works. Too much capacity will add unnecessary lube to the barrel (and therefore the gas tube).

    Overall length of a loaded cartridge will be determined nicely with the tool mentioned above, BUT it will do nothing for filling the throat and for a load that is as accurate in your gun as possible.

    I hope this is helpful.

    Edd
    Charter member Michigan liars club!

    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in Government." -- Thomas Jefferson

    "Consider the clown(s) just one of God's little nettles in the woods, don't let it detract from the beauty. Sooner or latter you are going to run into the nettles regardless of how careful you are."

    Beware of man who types much, but says nothing.

  20. #60
    Boolit Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    Thanks for the pics. They should be helpful to many folks. However there will be some folks that even pictures won't help.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check