Kevin nailed it for what we call them. We also call them Bravo Foxtrots and Blue Falcons.Originally Posted by azrednek
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Kevin nailed it for what we call them. We also call them Bravo Foxtrots and Blue Falcons.
I've got two problems with Dillon:
First is their change of the "No BS Lifetime Warranty" of electronic stuff. I understand that they can change the warranty of stuff the are selling but they have taken it upon themselves to retroactivly change MY warranty, post sale, to NOT being a lifetime warranty anymore. That to me is 100% BS! I suggest that they use their computer system and get the model number of electronic stuff that is being asked to be warrantied. Now THEY can know if this particular electronic item was purchased with the old "No BS Lifetime Warranty" or with the newer one year warranty that every other reloading company offers.
Second is the precedent that they have set by unilaterally voiding what was supposed to be a "No BS Lifetime Warranty". They've done this to electronic items that WERE sold with a "No BS Lifetime Warranty" that they no longer honor. What might they next decide no longer has a "No BS Lifetime Warranty"?
To OP.
My experience was similar to yours.
I needed assistance and to this day the 550 is sitting in the corner, used only as a paper weight. I tell folks who ask exactly why it's there.
Another poster chastised the OP for not being patient with a person who was checking on a product.
I didn't quite read it that way.
The showroom employee immediately displayed an attitude by complaining "why make me walk all the way back there they are closer than me". I asked the salesman to transfer my call back. After hanging on the phone for several minutes and not getting an answer I hung up.
That doesn't sound like the OP didn't wait, he did.
No one answered.
Allow me to take that bad acting 550 off your hands. I'm sure I have any parts needed to fix it in my storage bins...
Do you have a price in mind or do you want me to make you an offer.
I have a "like new" Lyman single stage and an oldie but goodie Hollywood Universal II turret press to trade with if you were so inclined...
I'll probably be hated for this, but I recently used their customer service and I did like the service I received. Although the No BS Lifetime warranty, should be called the No BS $100 rebuild service.
I know a lot of people truly love Dillon and I like it too, but I was taken back when I found out how the warranty really worked for the press. Probably just my confusion, but if I break a Snap-On wrench the warranty gives me a new one for free. I assumed that the warranty of the press worked the same way.
It's kinda like this... If the press doesn't work right, you send it to them and they rebuild it and send it back. It only costs what it costs you to ship it to them. If you want their "cleaning/lubricating service" (which includes replacing anything that needs to be replaced also), they charge a flat fee. The fees range from about $75 for the Square Deal, to about $150 for the Super 1050. That includes return shipment.
Some customer service reps do a better job than others in asking what is "wrong." It helps to know the "right" answer.
I have used both the No BS, warranty zero cost return service, and their "cleaning/lubricating service". I was more than pleased every time I opened the returned press. On more than one occasion, I think they just sent me a new press in exchange for mine!
I hope this clears its up a bit. No sense spending money if you don't have to!
It definitely needed more than a clean and lube, it wasn't working when I sent it in. I told them how the press was locked soid when I got it and was able to get it moving again and had replaced one part that I knew was missing. I didn't know if I was missing more parts and was tired of working on it. I told them it could be a simple adjustment problem or a more parts missing, I just didn't have a clue and was tired of working on it.
After sending mine in for repair, I did some internet searching for other people's feedback and it seemed that most people had to pay the repair fee.
Can I ask the last time you were able to receive zero cost return service? Maybe this isn't something that they offer anymore? I would have taken that option, but the only option I had was paying for the service. I also asked about buying a set of dies and have them shipped back with the press to save on shipping, but that wasn't an option for me either.
If a machine(other than the RL300/ RL1000/1050 series) has a mechanical problem beyond the ability of the owner to correct, Dillon will repair it under warranty at no charge. If your machine suffers from lack of maintenance,and you want us to clean and lube your machine,then we do charge a fee, which covers disassembly, cleaning all parts in the solvent tank, inspection of all parts and replacement of anything worn or damaged, relubrication and reassembly, and return shipping. We don't make a profit from this, just trying to cover costs.
There is a large secondary market in used Dillon equipment. On used equipment we won't warranty missing parts, and we do charge for our clean and lube service. Otherwise the machine's warranty stays with the machine, whether you are the first, second or fifth owner.
The warranty on electrical/electronic components changed on July 1 ,1999. Equipment sold prior to that is still covered under the lifetime warranty it was sold with. While we do not have a record of everything everyone has ordered since the beginning of Dillon Precision, between motor brands and scale configurations and serial numbers we can typically determine the age of products.
I do apologise for the grumbling about looking for 45 AR brass.Assisting customers is what people get paid to do here, so it is truly part of the job. At this time we do not have any 45 AR brass in stock. I checked, and Starline Brass lists it as currently being available directly from them.
https://www.starlinebrass.com/order-.../all-cases.cfm
Last edited by dillonhelp; 10-22-2012 at 12:50 PM.
I appreciate you commenting on my complaint, it is nice to know after all these years I finally got a listening ear at Dillons. Just for the record the 45AR brass you had in stock or at least showed as being in stock at the time was from a company named Top Brass.
As much as I appreciate the comment. I would have really liked to have heard somebody from Dillon commenting on the first part of my post in regards to the trouble created by reporting the two cops who were obviously not serious and just having some fun in a kidding manner chiding a mailman. I'd especially like to know the reason for the non-response from Mr Dillon.
There was a female working in retail ten years ago but I cannot recall her name.She hasn't worked here in quite some time. Kind of difficult to reply to something like that after all these years. I've been here since 1984, but I don't recall any rumors about such an over-reaction. We try to make our customers feel valued, not targeted. If she really was concerned, simply asking "are you guys kidding?" should have resolved the issue. As for your letter, it sounds like either A) Mike never saw it or B) it may have played a part in that particular sales person no longer being here.
I appreciate your response to my post. From your response I take it that Dillon has the position that they WILL honor electronic parts sold under the "No BS lifetime warranty" and that "between motor brands and scale configurations and serial numbers we can typically determine the age of products." The problem though is that the people answering the phones do not do this. They inform the caller that Dillon no longer has a lifetime warranty on electronic items, end of discussion. It is not that uncommon to read of this occurence on the various gun related forums on the internet.
My personal experience, well my father's actually, with this (I assume) policy in dealing with electronic warranty issues was a number of years ago. First, after storage, the early priming warning alarm on the 550 stopped working. This was stored without a battery in the alarm so there was no corrosion issue. A fresh battery was put into the alarm and it simply did not work. Upon calling for a replacement my father was informed that electronic items are "no longer covered under the lifetime warranty." You'll notice the phrasing "no longer covered", being applied to an item that was sold when such a warranty was applied to this item. There was NO effort made by the Dillon rep. to determine if this item had been sold under the lifetime warranty. My father ended up throwing the item away. The same EXACT thing happened when the switch on his case cleaning tumbler went out. No effort was made to determine when the item was sold. The rep simply stated that Dillon "no longer covers electronic items under the "No BS Lifetime Warranty" and that was it. My father wound up bypassing the switch himself to get it to work.
There is an obvious policy at Dillon to deny warranty to any electronic item no matter when it was sold. Only when a stink is made, or a certain person is contacted (I cannot remember his name but it has been posted on this forum previously) does Dillon honor it's warranty. What my father experienced in trying to get Dillon to honor its warranty was 100% BS and not the "No BS Lifetime Warranty" that he was promised. In my opinion Dillon should institute a policy of being PRO-active in determining when the item was sold so that people would get the warranty service that they were promised.
Again, thank you for your response.
There is a good rule of customer truisms that I share with all of our clients, and it goes like this:
97 out of 100 of your customers are golden. They are the ones you forecast your budgets for, invite to focus groups for R&D and trial, and for whom you'll move mountains to keep their business.
The other 3 out of that 100 will never be happy. They'll always want more, demand more, bad-mouth you, complain to their (like-minded) friends and associates and even when you finally bend to their demands, will remark to their friends, "They took care of it, BUT. . ."
To stay profitable and sane, whenever you identify one of those three-percenters, let it be known that you do not want, nor need their business. In doing so, you'll give yourself more time and resources to better take care of the 97 percent who truly appreciate you and who will be loyal and understanding customers.
In the book, Still Nuts After 25 Years, Southwest Airlines (former) CEO Herb Kelleher relates to a correspondence he had with a passenger with which he formally barred from ever flying with SWA again. She was so high-maintenance and impossible to satisfy (SWA would resolve one problem, only to have her develop another one) that it was affecting morale with those who had to constantly deal with her.
Herb wrote her a firm letter stating SWA would no longer honor her business because put simply, she would never be satisfied. Southwest Airlines, by the way, is pretty much the "Dillon Precision" of the airlines in terms of how far they'll go to make and/or keep their passengers and customers happy.
The Container Store is renowned for their other-world customer service as well as being a perennial Top Five company to work for in terms of employee loyalty and satisfaction. Yet, they maintain a "go pound sand" list of customers whose incessant returns and complaints are not only not profitable, but detrimental to the morale of the individual store's workforce that has to deal with the constant PITA customer.
Such policies has not affected The Container Store or Southwest Airlines' profitability one iota. In fact, just the opposite--more quality time spent taking care of loyal, patient, understanding customers allows for stronger loyalty and far more profitable organic growth.
There is absolutely zero reason why Dillon--or anyone else--should cover blatant neglect or abuse in their warranties. Likewise, it is absolutely one-hundred percent unreasonable to expect that electrical devices will last forever and if they don't, the company will replace them free of charge. Craftsman's tool warrant is on non-electric tools, same as Snap-Ons.
Quite frankly, I have no problem with any reloading manufacturer's warranty and customer service. Many years ago, some poor guy at Dillon spent hours on the phone with me helping me adjust my brand new 550. Several years ago, I had Steve Hornady himself calling me about a collet bullet puller that I broke the handle on and couldn't figure out why--until we discovered that it was missing a crucial part.
While I'm not happy with Lee's apparent lack of quality control, I have yet to ever have a negative customer service experience in which they refused to honor a warranty.
As far as someone calling about two cops and a postman joking about bribes and whatnot, that could've happened at the local McDonalds or dry-cleaners or Midas muffler shop just as easily as it did the Dillon showroom. That has zero--repeat, ZERO--reflection upon Dillon's quality or their customer service as it relates to their products and equipment.
Anytime we've seen or heard of an issue, Dillon has stepped in here to explain things or to try and make things right. Hornady did the same thing with my bullet puller.
Why is it that we expect and demand 100% perfection and unreasonable expectations out of certain companies, but we don't expect that same 100% out of ourselves?
What is odd is that is exactly what Dillon did. That is why people spent about 20% more with the Dillon product than for the exact same item from a competitor. It was Dillon that sold the item with the "No BS Lifetme Warranty" it was not forced upon them, they wanted to set themselves apart from the competition and did so. I understand that they no longer have that same warranty on their electronic items, what I don't understand is the apparent difference in what the Dillon rep posted here and what the police appears to be from the phone takers.
I was just recalling a few hours ago while out cleaning up my late fathers shop. I was visiting while on vacation and had chance to use his balance scale. I complained about it not having any dampening. After explaining to my father about the new magnetically dampened scales he said that he wanted one. Great! Lets call Dillon. Not hardly was his reply. See, in the 10 years he had had Dillon equipment he had called them twice for a warranty issue. Both times he was told that their warranty had changed AFTER the sale. He called Midway and bought a scale made by RCBS instead. But I'm sure such things don't affect Dillons' bottom line so I'm sure they don't care.
"Why is it that we expect and demand 100% perfection and unreasonable expectations out of certain companies, but we don't expect that same 100% out of ourselves?"
I'm not sure I understand your point on with that question. I'll I want is for Dillon to honor their warranty that they offered and was paid for. It's really that simple.
I'm in 100% agreement with what you're saying. As I noted in a previous post and in my original post. I don't now or have I ever had a problem with Dillon's equipment. I do have a Dillon Square Deal in 45ACP. My gripes originated from poor emplyee performance and the lack of a response from my letter to Mr Dillon. I don't know for sure but highly suspect my letter never made it to Mr Dillon's desk. Another possibility, Mr Dillon may have passed the resposibility to another employee to follow up that failed to do so.As far as someone calling about two cops and a postman joking about bribes and whatnot, that could've happened at the local McDonalds or dry-cleaners or Midas muffler shop just as easily as it did the Dillon showroom. That has zero--repeat, ZERO--reflection upon Dillon's quality or their customer service as it relates to their products and equipment.
Why is it that we expect and demand 100% perfection and unreasonable expectations out of certain companies, but we don't expect that same 100% out of ourselves?
I never have expected 100% from anybody, Dillon especially but I simply made the choice as a consumer to upgrade my loading equipment from another manufacture and not spend it with Dillon. I earned the money and have the option to spend it where I want.
During the portion of my working career supervising other employees. I quickly learned that many employees go above and beyond 100% but have off days. The same 5% of the workforce that create over 90% of the problems and complaints unfortunately reflect upon the entire company and often send $$'s to the competition.
I never expected to ruffle so many feathers expressing my dissatisfaction and negative experience with two of Dillon's employees. I certainly didn't deserve to have my original post censored by the moderator because he disagreed or for some other unknown motive. Had I known I would have angered anybody I would have kept my opinion to myself.
I come here to Cast Boolits for enjoyment and to pick the brains of experienced re-loaders and casters when a problem arrives. In the future I will no longer share my dissatisfaction with anybody or anything. Angering a few other board members was never my intention. Having my opinion challenged is not only expected but welcome, especially if it is done without being personally insulted in a gentlemanly manner. Being censored and more or less being ordered by the moderator to start my own thread to express my opinion because it disagreed with his, was way overboard.
Last edited by azrednek; 10-22-2012 at 07:41 PM.
I think you are taking this the wrong way. To ask that you start a new thread is wholly reasonable. We have had some interesting discussion here and no one acted like an ***, even those whose view differed from your and mine.Being censored and more or less being ordered by the moderator to start my own thread to express my opinion because it disagreed with his, was way overboard.
I can think of several other reloading sites I frequent who would not have allowed this conversation to take place or would have closed it. The fact that everyone here acted so maturely is a an indicator that discussions like this should continue. It is also nice that a couple Dillon reps showed up to comment.
As for the continuing discussion about the no BS warranty not extending to electronic components, I find this also reasonable and necessary to maintain a viable business model.
Lastly, although I can't speak for Mike Dillon, he may not have read your letter and that's why you never got a reply to it. I once wrote a letter to him complaining about a Blue Press article. Not only did parts of my letter appear in a subsequent edition, Mr. Dillon called me and we talked for 45-minutes about my complaint.
Dillon is not perfect, but they enjoy a reputation for quality and service not shared by most other companies.
Member: Orange Gunsite Family, NRA-Life, ARTCA, American Legion, & the South Cuyahoga Gun Club.
Caveat Emptor: Do not trust Cavery Grips/American Gripz/Prestige Grips/Stealth Grips from Clayton, NC. He will rip you off.
No anger here, no feathers ruffled--no reason to be as I don't have a single piece of blue equipment on my bench at the moment. The 550 I had is being enjoyed by a DAV who was in the first wave sent to Afghanistan in 2002.
But, I wrote what I did to point out a basic business acumen which is that you cannot please all of the people all of the time and it is fruitless to enact policies and CSR programs specifically for that purpose.
Why?
Because it is not profitable. And without profits, you have no business.
Within that acumen, you are going to lose a few customers; on the flip-side, you might end up being one of those customers. I know I have because I've run into a few businesses in which I simply cannot be satisfied.
Just the way it is.
Sorry but i never saw where dillon charged 20 percent more for the same exact product. Not if quality of both products were the same.
I have had about five times now, where I either sent something back to Dillon for service, or bought some new thing from them outrightly. The first was an older model 500 tumbler that I just plain wore out from over use. I had bought it new, and it lasted for a long time, running hundreds and hundreds of hours over years. I hated to part with it. I tried to find an aftermarket motor for it (the original bushing was worn, and the commutator was stuck against the coil). I had read somewhere that Dillon would do an upgrade on it, for a slight fee. They installed a 750 motor, springs, and a new wire cord set for cheap money, paid for return postage, for much less than I could have bought a new one. I was so impressed that immediately bought (directly from them) one of the CV2001 tumblers to take on the biggest duties. Both machines continue to run wonderfully.
I purchased a slightly used RL550b machine a few years ago, and it obviously needed some tweaking. I sent that back, costing me ONLY the postage to get it there. They replaced missing parts, and worn parts, and made all adjustments, so that the machine has served me well in all of the subsequent years. They did not make any money on that one.
I traded a reloading class for another RL550b, which I sent in for fixing. It was missing a ton of parts, and even had a solidly rusted Gen 1 set of 9mm dies. I was honest with them when I sent it in, and they treated me more than fairly. For the cost of postage, and a slight fee, they sent me back a virtually NEW machine, including a brand new powder dispensor, a new set of 9mm dies, and the machine complete in every way, and running perfectly. AGain, they stood by their warranty (yes, they charged me a fee... but the list of items that they replaced, which was included in the packing paperwork FAR EXCEEDED the fee that they charged me.)
My most recent experience was also good. I was looking for information on the size of the openings for their CM-500 case media seperator. I wanted to be sure that the .22 LR brass I was processing would stay inside the basket. The fellow I called put the phone down on the desk, walked out to the warehouse, measured the openings with a tape measure, made me happy, and accepted my order right then and there. I don;t know of any other company who would have taken that time to make me happy.
I'll buy Dillon every time I can. And, I know, with personal experience and confidence, that they will stand behind my purchases. I have been honest and fair (I have never tried to get anything for FREE from them) with my communications with them. They have always taken care of me, and made things right.
I am delighted with the service.
NRA Life Member
NRA Certified Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor
Author of a book on reloading
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Not exactly the way it went down. I did remove your post from my thread because it obviously was not about Dillion Precision product customer service but instead was about some misunderstanding between you, 2 cops and an EMPLOYEE of Dillon Precision. I sent you a nice PM explaining my reasoning and suggested you start your own thread:
You repsonded by PM with:
I did reinstate all post you placed on my thread once you started this thread in an attempt to keep the records straight which I am glad I did seeing how you twist the facts.
"The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion."
- Albert Camus -
First right off the bat I'd like to state that i do not agree that Dillon is responsible for what the lady did, but if you own a company and have employees those employees represent you and your company. He has every right to complain about customer service if he so desires as he and those officers were customers and because of an idiot representative from Dillon they received customer service in a worst way. The incident is most likely the reason the lady is no longer an employee of Dillon.I did remove your post from my thread because it obviously was not about Dillion Precision product customer service but instead was about some misunderstanding between you, 2 cops and an EMPLOYEE of Dillon Precision.
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