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Thread: simple lube.

  1. #81
    Boolit Master
    runfiverun's Avatar
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    yep , randy.
    it's anhydrous, which means nothing really as it contains water even though it's afraid of it.
    but so do most automotive greases [shrug]
    a lb will last a long/long time but makes good boolit lube and if you add some castor oil will make an excellent case and swaging lube too.
    it's all an educated guess,,,, till the trigger is pulled.

    this opinion brought to you by mister low-tech solution..

  2. #82
    Boolit Man
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    What do you think of substituting drug store mineral oil for the ATF fluid?

  3. #83
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    ATF has lots of good additives that the mineral oil doesn't. The ATF is cheaper anyway, might as well use the good stuff.

    Gear
    You can't fix Stupid, but you can occasionally head it off before it hurts something. --Stephen Adams

    To universalize one's experience and state it as the norm is always thin ice on which to stand.--CharGar

    Being able to separate the wheat from the chaff has always been a valuable skill in all of life's activities. --Bwana


  4. #84
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    Simple lube update. First of all, thanks to R5R for this recipe and both he and Gear for their help in refining it.

    My first attempt was a failure. I used what was at hand, which was a semi-synthetic 2 stroke. Everything else was according to the original recipe. The resulting mix turned out to be crumbly. With the addition of 1/2 tsp of reduced alox and another 1/2 tsp of vaseline it SEEMED okay. However when shot in 22-29 degree cold with no wind blowing, groups were haphazard with purge flyers.

    Second attempt was even worse. After mixing the right proportions using Redline 2 stroke , I let it sit for two days. I should have left well enough alone. This mix seemed way to dry and I thought that 1/2 tsp of reduced alox would help. This abortion shot purge flyers from the second shot on and off through the tenth.

    Third try was the charm. The exact mix and ingredients as laid out by R5R were used. With nothing else added or taken out, Two different five shot groups measuring no more than 3/4 in, were fired With no purges. I would have shot more groups but they closed the range on me. Also, the groups would probably been better had the sun not been shining right into the scope and I was using a new rifle rest which kept sliding around on the concrete bench.

    Should have mentioned. All groups fired at 100 yds with a 222 rem, mag. Shooting was done on two separate days with the temps on both days 20-30 degrees.

    Moral of this story? Should have tried the original version first!
    I'm thinking that the red line 2-stroke is very slick and if anything I'll have to add some bees wax in warmer weather. Hopefully not, but at least I've now got a cold weather lube for my 22 center fires.
    Kirk

  5. #85
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    Amazing what happens when you follow instructions, isn't it?

    The Red Line is indeed more slick and has a higher film strength than PAO-based two-stroke oils. I really like the POE Red Line oil, and think it is one of the best lube ingredients going in a beeswax-based lube, but it does require a bit less and can definitely give one an excellent demonstration of what is a purge flyer. Just today I tested a new version of my Longhorn lube using a bit more Red Line and less soap, OMG it shot two tiny groups, one right above the other about an inch apart at 100 yards. If two in a row hit in the top group, I could win a bet that the next would print in the lower group. After switching back to the previous formula plus some slack wax and carnauba, the flyers ceased. This was also at just about freezing temps.

    Gear
    You can't fix Stupid, but you can occasionally head it off before it hurts something. --Stephen Adams

    To universalize one's experience and state it as the norm is always thin ice on which to stand.--CharGar

    Being able to separate the wheat from the chaff has always been a valuable skill in all of life's activities. --Bwana


  6. #86
    Boolit Master
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    you run into the issue i had when i fist modified the E-yellow with the animal fats and the sulpher ester.
    it made the lube silky smooth but there was too much glide left behind.
    it totally was a failure when the temps went over 85 or so.
    it's great in the cold though,or if i just filled the g/c area with it.
    the simple green is a bit on the dry side for a reason but a little more vaseline cuts that out and makes the lube feather better.
    the ingredients are what's important, you just have to modify the basic lube with the vaseline to get the visc you want.
    all beeswaxes are a little bit different.
    it's all an educated guess,,,, till the trigger is pulled.

    this opinion brought to you by mister low-tech solution..

  7. #87
    Boolit Buddy
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    What are you two guys - gearnasher and runfiverun - retired closet chemists? You seem to have a wealth of chemistry at your finger tips and the time to experiment too. I sure do enjoy reading your experiments. You're doing what I have hoped to do but am not educated enough to pursue in an intelligent manner.

    Jeff Houck

  8. #88
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    Not chemists, they just know lubrication..........

  9. #89
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    Next question from a lube retard. If the simple lube needs to be modified for warm-hot weather, should more bees wax be added or vaseline taken out? Simple mind wants to know.
    Thanks
    Kirk

  10. #90
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    I use 2/3rds for most beeswax base lubes. Less beeswax and you take away from the base, more and you run into the limitations of beeswax (because then you are more dependent on the beeswax as the lube). Sometimes you can get a way with deviations depending on how demanding your load is. Kirk, my answer is; try it either way, just stay in that 2/3rd beeswax zone and it will work. I hope i didn't confuse the subject.

  11. #91
    Boolit Master rlb's Avatar
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    R5R, have you shot this lube in the recent days since the temp has dipped? I don't know what the difference is between Soda and Challis, but it has been staying in the teens for highs here lately. How much modification does a guy need to do to go from these temps to summer temps?

    Thanks
    Rich

  12. #92
    Boolit Master
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    we have been staying in the same temp range during the days.
    my big winter modification to most lubes is to add some atf...
    if i wanted to further modify the lube for the extreme cold i'd just add 1/2 tsp of neatsfoot oil.

    i went shooting yesterday with little girl and her boyfriend he and i were using L-yellow-m [with neatsfoot]
    she was using my moly complex,i didn't have enough time before dark to try anything else out.
    but my first shot from the 1917 was a hit on the 10" gong at 300 yds. [i missed shot #8 and shot #12] littlegirls first shot went into the group,i didn't see where his went from his 308 as i was bs'ing with the clubs president.

    kirk:
    the simple lube does not need heat modification unless you are shooting in holy hot like well over 100-f temps.
    it's slightly dry for this reason.
    i haven't tried taking the melt temp any higher,i could
    try it i just haven't seen the need.

    modifying a lube for weather is nothing more than modifying it's viscosity so that in the hot/cold the wax can release/retain the oils [lube] similarily [sp?]

    me and ian aren't chemical guy's we have just had some good guidance/sample support from a lube engineer and some correspondence with a chemical engineer.
    this has let us take the ingredients apart and see what each one does. [like lith stearates and paratack and binding agents]
    that, information sharing, and a lot of late night web surfing.
    there have been lot's of others involved with what
    we know.
    eutetic and btroj have had a lot of input
    and felix has had a ton of information available as well as some others that are/aren't members here.
    Last edited by runfiverun; 01-01-2013 at 12:33 AM.
    it's all an educated guess,,,, till the trigger is pulled.

    this opinion brought to you by mister low-tech solution..

  13. #93
    Boolit Master rlb's Avatar
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    Thanks. Might have to try some. I have been using Felix lube with a little tech grade moly and it does ok, but I am always open to suggestions.
    Rich

  14. #94
    Anti-Socialist Texan


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    The big challenge to this is that I don't know anyone who is formally educated in Boolit Lubrication Technology, or even where to take a class other than in the garage classroom/online conferences and lab days at the shooting range. A genuine, educated lubrication engineer, a pharmacist, and two Tribologists among many others have taken a very high interest in this and have brought a wealth of technical knowledge to us in the past year, but there is no direct industry analogy to boolit lubrication so we can't just put forth a set of parameters that they can whip up a formula to meet. If it were that simple or inexpensive, Felix would have come away from Houston many years ago with a patented formula and he and one of the big Texas oil companies would be getting rich off of it still today, but the needs of boolit lubrication are so unique that it is a field unto itself.

    So, really, the only way to truly answer so many of the questions that come up with a certain lube formula is to take something and go test it. We established some basic test parameters in the Extreme Lube thread. Kirk, try Lamar's formula next summer in the hottest weather you have where you live and see if it holds together for you. If you can establish that it doesn't (direct comparison to your groups made in cooler weather), then try modifying it a bit and observe the results. Much of this is in the "try it and see" stage, help us by trying and seeing.

    I've almost got something together that will be sent out to about a dozen people for some final testing, and if that holds up we'll have a pile of empirical data by next summer that will answer most any question a mind could have. I imagine that we'll have a lot more answers about Simple Lube and Ben's Red by then as well if you guys keep making and shooting all this stuff in all sorts of climates and guns.

    Gear
    You can't fix Stupid, but you can occasionally head it off before it hurts something. --Stephen Adams

    To universalize one's experience and state it as the norm is always thin ice on which to stand.--CharGar

    Being able to separate the wheat from the chaff has always been a valuable skill in all of life's activities. --Bwana


  15. #95
    Boolit Master
    runfiverun's Avatar
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    feed back is a definate plus.
    we have made a lot of strides since starting.
    i think we even have a handle on how lube works.
    that and eutetics c.o.r.e. testing on barell condition [pitting,rougness,smoothness] has really helped.

    i recently modified some of the simple lube [with thick] xlox.
    it made a very stable lube modification i heated it up to 90 and cooled it down to 20 with no issues.
    i even made a small batch of S-green and added a ton of sodium stearate [through a strainer [siiigh]
    it looks pretty good though. [if not a little soft]
    i think i can see how joe made his burnt hockey pucks.
    it's all an educated guess,,,, till the trigger is pulled.

    this opinion brought to you by mister low-tech solution..

  16. #96
    Boolit Master
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    My appreciation again to all who have spent so much time and energy developing workable lubes. I feel like a kid with an erector set. Something doesn't work, tear it down and start over. It's been fun. I'm off to the range right now to try the ORIGINAL version of simple green in 20 degree cold.
    Kirk

  17. #97
    Boolit Master SlippShodd's Avatar
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    I saw this in a cartoon once. I'm pretty sure I can pull it off...

  18. #98
    Boolit Master
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    there have been a few other reports trickling in with this lube.
    one was with a revolver and the groups got better as the charges went higher.
    nevermind the alox additive,it made the lube stable and pliable it don't shoot worth beans though.
    it does okay but the alox was causing some random flyers.

    the reports have been positive if you stick with the origional lube and it's ingredients.
    we are still working on it though.

    ahh through popular demand i'm just gonna call it "simple lube"
    say that 5 times fast
    it's all an educated guess,,,, till the trigger is pulled.

    this opinion brought to you by mister low-tech solution..

  19. #99
    What boolit did you use in the 222?

  20. #100
    Boolit Master
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    I'm still playing around with it. It's shown some promise in 308. Groups have been good up to around 1900 FPS with air cooled WW. Haven't gone higher yet with that one.

    Also played with the 300 blk some more. Tried a couple slight variations on a freshly cleaned bore and none of them shot worth a hill of beans although I'm going to switch powders and try some more. I had 3 different variations to try and had them all labeled and written down on a piece of paper. But of course I lost the paper and had no idea which ones were which so I'll have to repeat my test.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check