30-30 Maximum Distance With Accuracy

[jh45gun]

I would feel comfortable at 150 better at a 100. Longest shot I ever shot at a deer (doe) and connected (One shot kill) was a couple of years ago with my Marlin GG 45/70 a ranged by two range finders 190 yards. I felt comfortable with that shot as I was using a rest and the gun is scoped with a 1.5x4. Weaver scope. I also ahead of time figured out the trajectory and the hold over. I was sighted in at 100 yards. With the load I was using I held a foot over her back to get it into the lungs heart area and it went through the front leg and through the heart and out the other side. If I would have had my Winchester Model 94 I don't know if I would have taken the shot or not. I consider both my lever guns woods rifles. I have a Swedish Mauser 6.5x55 with a scout scope set up for long shots.

[Salmoneye]

Movement my friend, if you hear it its too late

I realize you are 'joshing', but...

I knew both of these guys:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...iend-dead.html

[MtGun44]

Define "accuracy" first.

Bill

[John Boy]

Define "accuracy" first.

Bill, is MOA groups ... with iron sights close enough for you?
MOA or less has always been the standard definition. Do you have a different definition?

[jh45gun]

Bill, is MOA groups ... with iron sights close enough for you?
MOA or less has always been the standard definition. Do you have a different definition?

It was a reasonable question a lot of old timers with 30/30 Winchesters always said if you could hit a pie plate at a 100 yards it was good enough to kill a deer. That certainly is not MOA but good enough for them.

[starmac]

I don't think this poll is about moa, or 600 yards would not be a consideration?????

[Lonegun1894]

Not to be agrumentative, but I didn't take accuracy to mean MOA either. We have all at some point tried shooting groups "good enough" for a certain application, and accepted them. Like the posts above mentioned, manu consider plate size groups to be good enough for deer. What is good enough for deer isn't good enough for squirrel. When I mentioned shooting in my post earlier about playing at longer ranges by shooting at inanimate objects such as cans and milkjugs, ANY HIT on them was good enough, even though the vast majority weren't MOA, but it allowed me to practice and improve and test what I was capable of with that gun back then. All I'm trying to say is that there is a difference between practical accuracy and target accuracy. While I WANT MOA accuracy with all my rifles, I dont NEED it with most because I can't maintain that level in the field from field positions. Take my muzzleloader for example, even though it isn't a .30-30. I have taken several deer with it out to 110 yds with a round ball, and I can do 4" at 100yds with it. That isn't even close to MOA, but it is accurate enough that I have never had a problem trusting it to work very well out to 100yds on deer or hogs--and it has never failed me. So for that purpose, within the 100yd range limitation, that rifle is what I consider accurate for its intended purpose. It's not accurate enough for me to trust it past 125yds however in a hunting situation.

[Jaybird62]

The distance at which the bullet goes trans-sonic.

[starmac]

Well it isn't no wonder, a ram at 600 yards would look like a squirrels eye to me. lol

[w30wcf]

John
Accuracy has been very good at 500 meters on a calm day....from a solid benchrest.

Go to a 30-30 propelled 200-220 gr bullet and "good to go" at 1,000 yards.

w30wcf

[MtGun44]

I asked because most lever guns (most .30-30s are lever guns) will not produce the
kind of groups that bolt guns will, IME. Also, most people use .30-30 for hunting and
"accuracy" would be good enough at 5-6" groups to kill a deer. Should be no trouble
to get a 5" group at 250-300 yds, depending on sights, shooting position and shooter.

If you want MOA groups from a .30-30, in a lever gun, you have set a fairly high bar. Not
impossible, but not trivial, either.

Bill

[geargnasher]

A .30-30 levergun can be exceptionally accurate, particularly for short strings of fire, provided a little work is done to the junk hanging off of the barrel. I've never found the rear locking bolt to be an accuracy disadvantage for practical shooting. My Marlin .30-30 routinely turns in half inch, five shot groups at 100 yard from the bench with a 4X scope, at the high end of medium velocity with cast boolits, but it isn't by accident. My .35 Remington is close behind. It won't keep ten at a time there, though, due to barrel heat. Many leverguns are severely disabled by forearm, band, and mag tube bind.

Gear

[Multigunner]

The .30-30 has been used in target competition in Australia, usually in rebarreled SMLE or single shot actions.
I've been told its extremely accurate at 200 yard mark, which coincides with the favored range of similar rounds such as the .32-40 and 8.15X46r.

At a guess I'd put its reasonable accuracy limitation for a lever action with 24 inch barrel at 600 yards, the carbine being considered a 300 yard mankiller by the Texas Rangers who considered the .30-40 Krag carbine to be good for 400 yards in a gun battle against live targets that shot back, some rifles of course being more accurate or better suited to the cartridge than others. Accuracy with factory loads would be less than with taylored handloads, and box magazine fed actions would allow a better choice of bullets suited for longer ranges.

Some of the high grade custom ordered Model 94 rifles with 26 inch barrel and tang mounted peep sights could probably outshoot some purpose built target rifles.

Reduced power loads of more powerful main battle cartridges that mimic the .30-30 in trajectory appear to improve medium range grouping ability, but these are not likely to hold any such advantage beyond 600 yards if that far.
The slower the bullet starts out the quicker it drops below super sonic velocity and becomes vulnerable to transonic buffeting. Typical .30-30 flat base round or flat nose bullets would be more vulnerable to buffeting than boat tail spire points.
Thos bullets with the plastic nose insert may be better for longer range than the traditional round nose or flat nose bullets.

[Canuck Bob]

I answered the poll at 200 yards as my absolute limit for hunting accuracy.

For a benched iron sighted rifle and targets as John Boy sorta defined for his original question I figure I could dial in my 32 Special to hit a 2 foot square piece of plywood at quite a distance but can't prove it yet. I think 350 is doable but 500 just doesn't seem realistic for me. It sure sounds like some fun trying. Years ago I dialed in a 22 on my uncle's farm for quite a distance and an old sheet of plywood. There was also a time I could hit gophers at the limit of my ability to see them with my 10/22 and a peep.

However my personal definition of accuracy is a working rather than target definition. What an accomplished rifleman can do at the range is much different than what can be done under field conditions. Hunting accuracy is a paper plate, 8 inch circle, with peep sights and sitting, 200 best. In my military days hitting a man size target from prone, say an 18"X24" target, 500 meters often enough to be dangerous.

Someday I might buy and set-up a true precision rifle but at 60 it is getting less likely every day. My personal goal for the next year is to tune me and my 32 Special up to shoot 5" groups at 200 paces with a Lyman 66 and cast bullets from my bench, the hood of my Jeep. For my 303 LE No.5 I just have to try 500 paces with issue sights. I'm planning half a sheet of plywood for my target backing though. The 303 groups ok but the sights are a pain to dial in.

[TXGunNut]

Seems to me this thread and others like it would get better responses with a concise definition of "accuracy". Interesting responses, though.

[John Boy]

Bill, is MOA groups ... with iron sights close enough for you?
MOA or less has always been the standard definition. Do you have a different definition?

TX, let's try it again ... what's your definition of accuracy?

* 53% of the poll responses say 200yds is maximum accuracy
* Ideal made a bullet mold that said the 311413 was accurate for target practice to 600yds
* I bought the old mold, cast 170gr GC bullets and shot a 7" group at 500 meters with iron sights and a too fat Marbles front sight- just short of 600yds to determine if the Ideal handbook words were BS or Fact. So, I'm a believer the handbook words are fact
* w30wcf, a very knowledgeable and accurate 30 caliber shooter says ... a 30 caliber in 200-220grs will make it to

MOA groups @ 500 meters is 5.46 inches - so I shot a 7" group from rest with iron sights that was 1.54 inches greater than MOA

[TXGunNut]

Effective hunting accuracy is 2-3 MOA under the conditions I generally hunt in but I feel a rifle that approaches or goes less than MOA is a truly accurate rifle for my skill level and purposes. I try to get 1.5MOA from my leverguns but I don't attempt long shots on game, shots on paper or steel are another matter altogether. My standard of accuracy depends on the situation and equipment. As I mentioned above I have different expectations and uses for the 30-30's I own.
I'm more interested in your expectations and conditions, I think you'll get better input that way. The 30WCF is one of my current projects and I'm more than a little curious about the subject. I know it performs better than is commonly believed but I want to figure out how to get the most from it.
Not wanting to hijack the thread, just want to keep it on track.
Damn fine shootin, BTW, John Boy!

[John Boy]

TX, the only game I hunt any more is waterfowl, with a shotgun!
When I hunted deer, it too was with a shotgun with slugs and buckshot. In PA I used rifles with scopes. In total, I stopped counting at 35 deer. My last deer was in 1993 using a scoped 308 from a shooting box. From rest, the 8 point buck went down like a sack of potatoes at a measured distance of 268 yds. With a slug gun I never shot more than 75 yds and buckshot was even less distance

I'm strictly a target and silhouette shooter now with iron sight rifles only - no scopes though I have a 32-40 mounted with a 12X Fecker that I plan to use for target shooting for even smaller groups.

My BPCR vernier sight load developments are to knock down silhouettes from 200 to 500 meters and Mid and Long Range target shooting to put as many bullets in the black and hopefully center hits. For example, at 1000yds, the X ring is 10 inches (MOA @ 1000yds) and the 10 ring is 20 inches ( 2x MOA). If I put holes in the X and 10 rings, I'm as happy as the proverbial pig. This is my definition of accuracy - MOA or less at the various target distances

The whole purpose for starting the thread was to determine what folks felt was the maximum accuracy distance with a 30-30 ... not knowing that there is a bullet, the 311413, that can be shot at 600 yds - which I satisfied myself it was accurate to 546yds (500 meters) ... close enough to 600 yds

[TXGunNut]

You're correct that the 30-30 is an accurate round at much longer distances than most folks realize. J-word spitzers and boattails are a waste of technology for most reasonable hunting distances, IMHO. Wish I could see irons well enough to hunt with the rifles I can't bear to mount a scope on. I'd like to give BPCR silhouette shooting a try but so far I can't make it work. On a good day I can have fun with peeps and may eventually happen upon a combo that works but for hunting I can and in most cases will use a scoped rifle. These days I only hunt hogs and cull deer, hope to use a 30WCF on both soon. Scope comes in handy for carefully evaluating horns or smacking hogs in low light conditions.

[GabbyM]

Accuracy is one thing. However trajectory takes a nose dive past 250 yards with a 30-30.