Duplex loads/Pyrodex/2 FG/45-70

**semtav** · 10-08-2012, 06:03 PM

**John Boy** · 10-08-2012, 07:33 PM

The forum is ...

Black Powder Cartridge (6 Viewing)
BPCR,your place for combining the Holy Black and Brass.

Gee, I can hardly wait for the next 'MR HUMBLE' post. Will it be a couple more percussion or flintlock rifles or shotguns that he wants to show off to us BPCR, note the CR, folks on the forum? Will we see another rack with a front stuffer cradled in the shooter arms? Will it be another condescending post, with a superior attitude toward others?

My suggestion for this thread is - let MR HUMBLE get the last word - and be it the last post for the thread ... to let it become not active anymore ...Bye!

Oh, BTW - don't forget he shoots 22/25 with the shotguns!

**tbierley** · 10-08-2012, 09:31 PM

Am I getting ban for one month because I can not get Black Powder in the area I live? I need to know

**wills** · 10-08-2012, 10:15 PM

Originally Posted by tbierley

Am I getting ban for one month because I can not get Black Powder in the area I live? I need to know

The fine folks at powder inc are happy to ship it to you.

**waksupi** · 10-09-2012, 12:02 AM

Never mind. I'll deal with as necessary.

**MikeS** · 10-09-2012, 01:09 AM

Originally Posted by wills

The fine folks at powder inc are happy to ship it to you.

No matter how many people are willing to ship something to you, I don't believe black powder can be shipped via AIR, and some places (like islands) usually only get deliveries via air. Unless the regulations have changed considerably, and I doubt they have. For example, on Long Island in NYS in order for a truck carrying black powder to cross any of the bridges going over it, it was required that the truck had an escort, front & rear, and worse yet, they had to close down the bridge for all other traffic while the truck was crossing the bridge. So while technically you could get the real stuff there, it cost something like $125.00/lb and at the same time pyrodex was selling for $6.00/lb or something like that, I don't recall exactly what the prices were, I'm talking about maybe 40 years ago. So given those kinds of price differentials, how many people would shoot black, and look down on pyrodex? The one pound of pyrodex I had was that old, and I still had half the can, which I used very wisely here in FL, and spread it across the lawn!

I will admit to buying a 1lb can of 777 a while back, just to see what a newer sub is like a while back. Still decided to stick with real black powder. But I think I will go ahead an use up the 777, but I'm not going to use it in my RB, but rather in 45Colt loads for my Ruger Blackhawk. I don't trust the pressures 777 can generate to an old original BPCR gun. In a test of side by side loadings of FFg and 777 in the Ruger, filling both with about the same compression, it's amazing how much stronger the 777 load is, it recoiled almost as strong as a 44Mag factory load does in a similar blackhawk! Even so, when I finish this can, it'll be the last, now that I live in FL black is almost as easy to get as the subs.

**Mr Humble** · 10-09-2012, 01:57 PM

Mike, IME Pyrodex is not suggested for or has it ever worked for me in a flintlock or regular percussion rifle, unless you put about 10 gr of 4F under it to ignite it. That prize is not worth the quest as 2F works just fine. I find the flaming going on here to be unacceptable as there are obviously a group of true believers here who cannot tolerate anything that does not conform to their wishes. Since I have been shooting real black powder in flinters, percussion and inline rifles, shotguns and handguns for 50+ years, I know just a tiny bit about it. Anyone who thinks a 400 gr bullet at 1100 fps is a "pooper" load is very misinformed. He best hope he never gets in an altercation with a good shot carrying a 44-40 or 45 Colt rifle fueled with LESS black powder, a MUCH lighter bullet at a LOWER velocity. Assume his knowledge of Rev war "snipers" is ZERO shooting even lighter round balls at lower velocities.

I have 2 pounds of Pyrodex left over from TC Contender in line days and intend to use it up. If I can get it to work fine, if not, it's hardly the end of the world. BTW an 1885 Browning or it's current Winchester twin are BOTH BPCR rifles ...... read the rules.
Probably not "winners" in a match but full able to compete (whereas a genuine Sharps-Borchardt, cannot, so much for "experts" !)

If the results justify posting I will. Those who are anal about picking the scheit out of the pepper, need not read it.

The rifle the other poster "ignored" killed this speed goat very dead at about 90 paces, again with a 400 gr bullet backed by 70 gr of 2F. I hear a lot of yapping but see no photos of game taken that is neither common MZ fare or in country that is tough MZ terrirtory.

Not like killing Whitetails from a treestand, which I did for decades,(with a BOW).

Enough, my thread, pirated by trolls, is now all yours (trolls) unless I can get some worth posting results.

**Hiwall55** · 10-09-2012, 02:54 PM

Go to BPCR.net they have a forum for duplex loads

**montana_charlie** · 10-09-2012, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by Mr Humble

BTW an 1885 Browning or it's current Winchester twin are BOTH BPCR rifles ......

Yes, the Browning or Winchester Hiwall IS a BPCR rifle, and a good choice for hunting or competition. But, you only spoke about one in your opening post.
Since then you haven't mentioned it, nor pictured it, nor even reminded us that you have one.
It's apparent that it was not the reason you came to be among us.
Your entire plan seems to be to browbeat us with muzzle loaders, Pyrodex, and "IME" that leaves us saying "so what?"

In Post #2 I asked for a bit of information to try to help you out.
In Post #5 I realized you didn't want help, and said that you were in the wrong place.
In Post #27 you are still trying to make us play your game, and insulting those who don't care to.

Now, you say you're leaving.
You may feel like taking your sandbox and going home, but the sandbox was here when you arrived ... and there's a reason why it is filled with black sand.
If you ever have a notion to talk about about black powder cartridge, come on back. If not ... well, don't let your Pyrodex clump.

CM

**waksupi** · 10-09-2012, 08:52 PM

I want everyone to go look at the sticky at the top of the BPCR forum, "I love Pyrodex".

**Lead pot** · 10-09-2012, 09:23 PM

This forum is Black Powder Cartridge BPCR,your place for combining the Holy Black and Brass.

Pyrodex is not a black powder it is totally different as well as 777 or the other subs. It reacts different cleans different pressures can be different if you start with heavy compression that gets used with black powder.

Many of us use this forum for passing information using the black powder to help individuals just starting to use black powder.
I care less what people load there cartridges with! I care less, but I dont want some new guy coming on here and read some of the wrong information that gets posted about the subs and load that stuff like the real black powder and get hurt.
I'm sorry but this how I feel very strong about this.

Your the Boss with the switch and if you feel the need to push this switch to ban me or censor me off this black powder forum feel free to push that button!!

Kurt

**Mr Humble** · 10-09-2012, 11:17 PM

Gentlemen, I had no idea what a ruckus this would evolve into. Let's all take a deep breath and realize there are far more important topics than powder types.
Nobody is going to get hurt by loading any of the "subs" volume for volume with the same burn rates, in fact far more chance of harm by using 4F where 2F would be correct.
Promise I'll never use the evil word Pyrodex on this forum again.
Have a good evening, one and all !

**oldred** · 10-10-2012, 09:55 AM

Pyrodex is one thing but why on Earth do you keep posting pics of unremarkable muzzloaders in the BPCR forum?

**MikeS** · 10-10-2012, 12:25 PM

I find it interesting that there are so many people posting in this thread about how they don't like subs, don't want to talk about subs, etc. etc. but yet they're still posting in this thread rather than just ignoring it, and going on to the threads that DO interest them!

But I will say that all the pictures of muzzle loaders which are not BPCR rifles, while nice rifles, they're just in the wrong forum, not because of the powder used in them, but because of how they're loaded. When I have a question about my T/C muzzle loader I ask it in the muzzle loading forum, when I have questions about the rolling block rifle I just bought, I ask them here. The chances of getting good answers goes way up that way

**wills** · 10-10-2012, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by tbierley

Am I getting ban for one month because I can not get Black Powder in the area I live? I need to know

Originally Posted by wills

The fine folks at powder inc are happy to ship it to you.

Originally Posted by MikeS

No matter how many people are willing to ship something to you, I don't believe black powder can be shipped via AIR, and some places (like islands) usually only get deliveries via air. Unless the regulations have changed considerably, and I doubt they have. For example, on Long Island in NYS in order for a truck carrying black powder to cross any of the bridges going over it, it was required that the truck had an escort, front & rear, and worse yet, they had to close down the bridge for all other traffic while the truck was crossing the bridge. So while technically you could get the real stuff there, it cost something like $125.00/lb and at the same time pyrodex was selling for $6.00/lb or something like that, I don't recall exactly what the prices were, I'm talking about maybe 40 years ago. So given those kinds of price differentials, how many people would shoot black, and look down on pyrodex? The one pound of pyrodex I had was that old, and I still had half the can, which I used very wisely here in FL, and spread it across the lawn!

I sure am glad I am a member of this board. I learn so many interesting things here. For example, until now I did not realize Alabama was an island.

**oldred** · 10-10-2012, 04:33 PM

Not taking sides one way or the other on the availability issue but it's obviously at least somewhat difficult for some folks to get real BP even if it is possible. There is absolutely no question that convenience plays a big part for some folks and I myself was tempted to buy Pyrodex because of this. Unless a person wants a lot of powder, in my case I only needed a couple of pounds, ordering it can drive up the cost substantially unless someone is lucky enough to be part of a group buy for a bulk order. Again in my case I had the choice of paying the extra cost or driving a long distance to buy the stuff, I chose to order it but some (and understandably so) may not want to take that route. So it all boils down to do I want to order a couple of pounds and wait on it plus pay the substantial extra cost after shipping? Do I take half a day and drive the 65 miles to the only place I know that stocks BP? Or do I simply walk over to the sporting goods section at Wally World and pick up a couple of jugs of Pyro while waiting on my wife to finish shopping? Well to me the real stuff was worth the extra cost and the wait so that's what I did but honestly is it so hard to understand why someone else may not want to?

**Mr Humble** · 10-10-2012, 05:50 PM

Geeze, I'm sorry AGAIN for posting pictures of black powder muzzle loaders. The Ithaca is not a muzzle loader but not a rifle either so I get another ding. It's like being back in grade school waiting for the teacher to whack you with the pointer (yes back in ancient times they could do that).
I have never seen such a bunch of childish popo over a complete non-event. Wonder if any of you are as worried about what's happening in Libya or Washington as you are over a simple error in an Internet blog ? This will be my last post on this forum as it is clear that, unlike the other forums on this site, a lot of the posters here have a real OCD problem. I'm taking my questions on breech loading rifles that can be loaded with black powder to where the moderator suggested.
Enjoy yourselves and remember, NEVER, use the word Pyrodex in polite conversation !

**tbierley** · 10-10-2012, 10:54 PM

Originally Posted by waksupi

Okay, now that I have your attention, PAY attention. This forum is for sharing information on loading for BPCR type rifles. This means it is not just for competition shooters, that means EVERYONE who are shooting these rifles, in whatever configuration, from whatever manufacturer, or whatever powder they choose to use in them.
Any more condescending remarks, or telling someone to go somewhere else with their question will be deleted. If the person(s) persist, we will take a bit more affirmative action on the subject.
I DO hope I am perfectly clear on these points.

hmmmm

**Lead pot** · 10-10-2012, 11:22 PM

Mr Humble

I like your rifle, I really do! and it looks like it gets the job done too.

**Newtire** · 05-22-2017, 08:16 PM

Originally Posted by Mr Humble

Well had you noted the two rifles I showed and if you know about Pyrodex, then you would know that NEITHER of them will operate with anything but real black powder (of which I have plenty).
I'm not going to waste my time or anyone else's by arguing semantics of how BATF treats Pyrodex.
In terms of application it is a black powder substitute not a option to replace Bulleye, 3031 or RL 22 in any cartridges not originally designed for black powder. If you believe Pyrodex is no good, you are entitled to that opinion. Perhaps. unlike me, you have never used it in "modern muzzle loaders" like the TC Contender or Encore, probably never used the pellets or sabot bullets either.
Any honest unbiased analysis will tell you that they are superior to the traditional muzzle loaders we all love. Since Pyrodex works so well in modern muzzle loaders, there is no rational reason to assume it will not work as well in cartridge designed for black powder like the 45-70.
I asked for real world experience with duplex loading and got TWO on topic response.
The rest is the usual Internet "experts" running up their post count while not really being of any assistance.
Cast up and hardened a bunch of the 405 Lee plain base, lubed with SPG and loaded some with 2400/Pyrodex duplex and some with 4198/cornmeal. We'll give them a try tomorrow morning before continuing the search for the elusive atypical Antelope buck. Passed on seven good typical normal bucks so far but the season runs till 10/31 and the migration is very slow this year due to the mild weather.
Insofar as I'm concerned this is just a "fun" project", I'll keep those interested posted on results.

Why on Earth did you kick this guy off!? He is really pretty funny to read, has me busting a gut here!

BP	Bronze Point	IMR	Improved Military Rifle	PTD	Pointed
BR	Bench Rest	M	Magnum	RN	Round Nose
BT	Boat Tail	PL	Power-Lokt	SP	Soft Point
C	Compressed Charge	PR	Primer	SPCL	Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP	Hollow Point	PSPCL	Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt"	C.O.L.	Cartridge Overall Length
PSP	Pointed Soft Point	Spz	Spitzer Point	SBT	Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN	Lead Round Nose	LWC	Lead Wad Cutter	LSWC	Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC	Gas Check

Thread: Duplex loads/Pyrodex/2 FG/45-70

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