Made more Ben's Red today

[crabo]

I think this thread should be moved back to the lube section. You have to think too hard to remember to check it here. After I use up my TAC 1 I am going to make a batch of this.

[jonp]

Do you think any high temp grease would work? We get it in a drum at work to grease our semi's. We get a few different types of grease from 5th Wheel grease to axle and other types. I could get a small pail from the left overs in the barrels for free.

[w5pv]

I use the plastic ice trays for molds,three will suffice with enough left in the cooking pot for several hundred rounds.

[Ben]

Do you think any high temp grease would work? We get it in a drum at work to grease our semi's. We get a few different types of grease from 5th Wheel grease to axle and other types. I could get a small pail from the left overs in the barrels for free.

You could make a 2 pound quantity of the lube and substitute your High temp grease.

Test and evaluate it and report back.

Ben

[Win94ae]

I finally find the recipe! I searched for awhile yesterday, but only found threads mentioning the name.

Thank you!

[JWFilips]

Well Just to be sure sure I made my batch of Ben's Red the way Ben Makes it . I even went so far as to create his gradated melting pot. ( I wasn't going to take any chances) So I guess you can say I'm using the liquid volume method.
One thing to note: If you heat everything together as Ben originally stated and mix the heck out of it ( I'm talking 20 + minutes of constant stirring), everything will go into solution and there will be no lumps of R&T in the mix & you need not strain.
The problem is that during the melt you will see lighter globs of the R&T show up like little pieces of "tapioca" but by constant stirring
At LOW heat the will finally disappear If you heat is too high you will see smoke ( Not good) Keep it low & have patience.

Well now for the shooting Finally I tried out this mix on my newly aquired 357446 & 358311 Old ideal moulds Boolits
Just super! In my 38 special Mod 15 S&W excellent accuracy. In my Pre-27 S&W 357 mag the same
The 38 special were light load (3.2 BE) In the .357 mag 13 to 14 gr 2400 No leading! Yes there is some smoke and the guns do take on a slick feel to the metal after a few cylinders are fired. But the clean up is very easy. I use my of Gunsmithing recipie for cast boolit shooting of one part Hoppes # 9, one part Kano Kroil & one part "pure" gum turpentine. One or two patches & they are clean.
I don't have a lubersizer so I have been pan lubing & yes there is a problem trying to get the lube to flow around the boolits at a low temp! Especially with the 357446 & it's two lube grooves. I started to pour then move the lube around with some "canned air" on the hot plate at dead level. Level or not it just doesn't go where you want it to. The canned air will move it around to level off the flow.
OK That was my 2 Cents Not sure if I helped

Oh Yeah Just another Note: Again only my observations: If at any time you heat it and it smells really bad you over did it. When I feel it is done right I just get a mild chemical smell coming out of it. How do I know well if you pan lube & are patient for the mix to flow It will not smell nasty ...However if you want it to melt & flow fast you will get a very pungent smell! I think this is over heated and is a bad thing! I'm not sure maybe the real lube chemists will pipe in on this

[Ben]

JWFilips :

You may want to know that the Official Ben's Lube Conglomerate Consortium has just awarded you an A + for your willingness to read and follow directions.

See, ............good things come at the end when you do it right !

Congratulations ! !

Ben

[Bigslug]

I just remixed the first batch of Ben's Red I made. . .what? . . .the best part of a year ago? Great lube, but simply too gooey for my liking. The lube that didn't make it into stick molds just stayed hardened up as a big puck in the pan until today when I knocked it out, weighed it, and threw in a extra few ounces of beeswax to bring that ingredient up to 55-56% of the total. Initial impression is that it's still a soft lube, but better at holding it's shape when lightly touched. Poured it all out into 26 sticks today, and the last bit straight into the sizer. Got to run the the last of the old, soft-serve version out of the bottom before I see how well it works.

What I THINK I've got is juuuuuust soft enough to run through the sizer without plugging the heater in. That bit is TO BE CONTINUED.

Another thing to report - the lube seems to be quite happily compatible with Hodgdon's Triple 7 black powder substitute.

[41 mag fan]

[QUOTE=JWFilips;2360452]Well Just to be sure sure I made my batch of Ben's Red the way Ben Makes it . I even went so far as to create his gradated melting pot. ( I wasn't going to take any chances) So I guess you can say I'm using the liquid volume method.
One thing to note: If you heat everything together as Ben originally stated and mix the heck out of it ( I'm talking 20 + minutes of constant stirring), everything will go into solution and there will be no lumps of R&T in the mix & you need not strain.
The problem is that during the melt you will see lighter globs of the R&T show up like little pieces of "tapioca" but by constant stirring
At LOW heat the will finally disappear If you heat is too high you will see smoke ( Not good) Keep it low & have patience.

JW,
You strain that lube, you'll find chunks. The only way to avoid the chunks and not have any is a total melting of R&T. Which means a 35+ minute time frame on a med heat that works up to med/high heat.
Only this will totally break down the chunks, when the R&T goes to a liquid state.
When melted together like you describe, and as I have done too, you'll get a cloaking of the chunks of R&T that has not melted.
The beeswax cloaks the chunks, which is the stearates that have not broken down yet.
Those chunks will be small enough, if using a cast with a good sized lube groove, will mitigate to that lube groove. In the end, you'll have a chunk of R&T in part of your groove, and the rest of the groove will be the lube as intended to make.

[just_shooter]

Hi, Ben! Appreciate your effort and thanks for sharing.
Where is the velocity limit of this lube? How about using it in .223 at about 2300-2500f/s?

[crabo]

Approximately how much is the unliquified amount of JPW? How much do I need to have on hand?

[Ben]

Hi, Ben! Appreciate your effort and thanks for sharing.
Where is the velocity limit of this lube? How about using it in .223 at about 2300-2500f/s?

I've never done it ( 2,500 fps in a .223 ) , you try it and report back with your findings.

Ben

[Yodogsandman]

Approximately how much is the unliquified amount of JPW? How much do I need to have on hand?

My best guess is one can of JPW would make about 1.25 gallons of lube. I made a 10 cup recipe and used about half a can.

[just_shooter]

I've never done it ( 2,500 fps in a .223 ) , you try it and report back with your findings.

Ben

I live in Europe and collecting ingredients would cost me about $100 or so. In some reason we don't have Johnson's Paste Wax, can't find Lucas red lithium grease also. Importing these from US rising the price too much unfortunately, so I'll be very grateful if somebody share experience where is the velocity limit of Ben's Red before I spend the money.

[62chevy]

I live in Europe and collecting ingredients would cost me about $100 or so. In some reason we don't have Johnson's Paste Wax, can't find Lucas red lithium grease also. Importing these from US rising the price too much unfortunately, so I'll be very grateful if somebody share experience where is the velocity limit of Ben's Red before I spend the money.

What I would do is find the MSDS for both products on the internet and look for something local that is the same or similar.

[just_shooter]

I prefer to stick to the original recipe. Searching substitutes will ruin what someone already achieved.
The price is not a problem if I know the lube will meet my needs. So I only want somebody to share where is the velocity limit of Ben's Red (considering lead fouling and accuracy).

[RobS]

Hi, Ben! Appreciate your effort and thanks for sharing.
Where is the velocity limit of this lube? How about using it in .223 at about 2300-2500f/s?

Shooting 2300-2500 fps with a tight twist is going to very difficult to achieve no matter what lube you choose. Velocity limit with cast boolits will have more to do with other variables and lube wouldn't be at the top of the list. Having said that though a good lube can bring all the bits and pieces together.

[Ben]

I prefer to stick to the original recipe. Searching substitutes will ruin what someone already achieved.
The price is not a problem if I know the lube will meet my needs. So I only want somebody to share where is the velocity limit of Ben's Red (considering lead fouling and accuracy).

I feel that asking someone to mark a " velocity limit " is a tall order. Barrel twist ,barrel quality, bullet alloy, bullet design, loading techniques, bullet diameters, etc., etc . can distort data and information provided to you by any single cast bullet shooter. When you try to duplicate what has been done you may or may not be able to do it.

What an individual says doesn't mean as much to me as what 100 or 500 shooters say on a subject.

Shooting cast rifle bullets at near jacketed velocities will be a big challenge for any cast bullet shooter. As has previously been mentioned , by the time you've reached 2,400 fps, lube is only 1 of 20 or more factors that will be acting in unison to dictate the fate of the outcome of the high velocity experiment.

Ben

[DukeInFlorida]

Ben is exactly on the mark here!
In fact, any success with any lube absolutely depends on at least two other things being right: Bullet hardness for the speed traveling, and bullet diameter for the barrel the bullet is shot in.

The lube doesn't "fix" mistakes in the other two things. The lube is merely one of the basic three essential ingredients for success with shooting cast lead bullets.

Using the information in Glenn Fryxxels book, it becomes obvious that the lube works in several ways, presuming all else is right, to provide the proper lubrication for the casting down the barrel. A poorly designed bullet, from the lube groove perspective, isn't going to carry enough lube to do it's job beyond a certain speed (the bullet would simply run out of lube early), regardless of how wonderful the lube is.

There isn't an absolute science to any of this. As Ben points out, it's up to you to do your own testing, with your load, your castings, in your gun, with Ben's recipe, and see if it works for you.

I feel that asking someone to mark a " velocity limit " is a tall order. Barrel twist ,barrel quality, bullet alloy, bullet design, loading techniques, bullet diameters, etc., etc . can distort data and information provided to you by any single cast bullet shooter. When you try to duplicate what has been done you may or may not be able to do it.

What an individual says doesn't mean as much to me as what 100 shooters say on a subject.

Shooting cast rifle bullets at near jacketed velocities will be a big challenge for any cast bullet shooter. As has previously been mentioned , by the time you've reached 2,400 fps, lube is only 1 of 20 or more factors that will be acting in unison to dictate the fate of the outcome of the high velocity experiment.

Ben

[Ben]

Well spoken..................