I do question the speed of the drill for doing a barrel. I have watched hundreds of them drilled and rifled, and never anywhere near those speeds.
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I do question the speed of the drill for doing a barrel. I have watched hundreds of them drilled and rifled, and never anywhere near those speeds.
The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"
Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!
Chech this out:
http://www.machinistblog.com/downloa...hing-book-pdf/
Yes: 6 grand is a bit much. If he is going to drill for .22 cal then probably a .200-.205 drill, then ream to .218, then allow for rifling .003 deep per side. to .224 groove depth. (.22 cal is actually 7/32" bore)
In 416 SS you'd probably run that drill at around 400 rpms, reamer at 100 rpms.
The gundrilled hole starts with a drilled and reamed hole in the end of the blank. This establishes the position of the hole in the stock and acts as a bushing to guide the drill poiint. At that point the drill guides itself by using the previously drilled portion as the running bushing. Since the drill is trepanning the hole deeper, and is being guided by the shank of the drill the hole is generated in a strait line, and there are no side loads to make the drill wander. The actual gun drill portion of the drill is silver soldered to the tube which oil flows thru to evacuate the chips and lubricate the drill.
I have been told that the Hawken Brothers are the ones who figured this out.
The scrape rifling mentioned above is not actually scraping, it is actually cutting, it is just a very small chip. The chips break very short and look like chatter type chips, but the finish left behind will be smooth. If it was scraping it would dull the cutting edge quickly.
As far as work hardening 416 is not particularly bad, not even close to the 300 series SS's as it doens't have the Nickle/Chrome content that 300SS has. Nickle is the offending element as it hardens up really nice. Most don't know you can bake Electroless Nickle plating at 400 degrees and it will harden to around 73 Rc. Used alot in high wear applications like seal runners for oil wells where there is alot of sand in the oil.
Like I said earlier there is alot more to this than meets the eye.
My friend Mike Thompson of Thompson Gunndrilling of North Holywood CA once showed me some big chunks of 17-4 SS he had gundrilled for cooling passages. They were 57" long and had about 30 holes drilled thru end to end. The holes were 1/8" in diameter and were within .002 tru-position on the entry and exit of the hole.
I told him that was amazing, and I wasn't BSing him a bit!
He also makes lots of 30 MM gun barrels for a variety of guns you've probably seen. Most are smoothbore, and get reamed and then honed to size.
His shop is full to capacity and beyond at all times ($6mil a year+) Adn I could do exactly nothing he does. The work is just too specialized. He also is doing most of this work on machines that were built for WWII production and he rebuilds them all in house.
This is why I farm work like this out. I need a specific product and I can't do it, so I go to someone who can.
If I was to go into making barrels (which I am entirely capible of building the machines for) I would go to Mike for my gundrills and rifling cutters. I would also seek his advice on the machine's design as he has the knowledge on this subject that would take me a life time for accumulate.
It would be an interesting project if I had money to spend and nothing else to do.
Last edited by W.R.Buchanan; 10-01-2012 at 04:43 PM.
"It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
www.buchananprecisionmachine.com
It was a drill a guy in Portland built. I've got a video of it somewhere. I know it's very high speed (thas why I mentioned it), but that doesn't make it untrue. He went on and on about his speed controls - which were solid state , and were on the order of one or two percent. He also sold plans for heat treating furnace to stress relieve barrels. I have another somewhere of a rifling cutting machine made out of an atlas lathe. The builder was able to make match grade barrels on it. Air gauged and lapped. Probly more about the cutters than the machine.
We need somebody/something to keep the government (cops and bureaucrats too) HONEST (by non government oversight).
Every "freedom" (latitude) given to government is a loophole in the rule of law. Every loophole in the rule of law is another hole in our freedom. When they even obey the law that is. Too often government seems to feel itself above the law.
We forgot to take out the trash in 2012, but 2016 was a charm! YESSS!
Tonight was the first night to work on the barrel. I was able to buy a SS blank from Bruno's in Phoenix. I got it for 80$. He said I was the first person in 20 years to ask him for a blank. Guess not much of a market.
The gun drill is a Prat & Whitney. It is capable of drilling two barrels at once. He currently has it modified to drill small bore and large bore up to 3 inches in diameter.
The barrel was drilled with a carbide tip to a diameter of 212. This took us about two hours. From end to end, we were only out off center buy 8 thousandths. He said it was one of the best he had done in 15 years. Needless to say he was pretty darn happy!!
Tomorrow night we go on to honing out the barrel to the required 218. He thinks it might take a couple nights as we are working two to three hours each night.
I snapped a couple pics of the drill. I'll keep up the progress as we go through it.
Attachment 48522
Attachment 48523
She was made in 1940.
Last edited by Lizard333; 10-14-2012 at 10:41 PM.
"The right of the people to keep and bear...arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country..." (James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434 [June 8, 1789])
Once the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.
Benjamin Franklin
My friend Mike Thompson has about 12 of those machines.
After working on this blank you should be getting some idea of the requirements.
Are you going to ream the hole or are you going to hone it to size? Ream to 216 and hone the final .002 out would be a good way to go.
Incidentially that PW gundrill machine will still be useful for another 100 years easily. As I said above Mike rebuilds his in house.
Good that you are getting this experience.
Randy
"It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
www.buchananprecisionmachine.com
Friday night we finished honing the barrel to final diameter of 218. Monday night I will be cutting the grooves. I will get some pics of his setup. I think you guys are going to be impressed.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
"The right of the people to keep and bear...arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country..." (James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434 [June 8, 1789])
Once the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.
Benjamin Franklin
Glad to see it is going well, pleases keep us posted.
Ok, last night we started cutting the riffling on the barrel. And by cutting, I mean cutting. We are not using a button, broach, or hammer forging. I will take some pictures of the cutter tonight. From my understanding, there are only eight of these machines left in existence. Of the eight, the one we are using is the only one capable of doing barrels longer than 36 inches. This machine can make a barrel 80 inches in length.
I must admit, this process has taken quite a bit longer than I expected. Two hours to drill, two hours to hone, and 2 hours, so far, to cut the threads. After slugging the barrel last night, we found that we had only cut a half thousandth of thread. A lot of the time last night was just set up, as getting the hydraulic ram set up with the stops, took a little bit of finesse.
I will see about taking a video of the process tonight as well. Tonight we will be able to start cutting right away as everything is already set up.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Last edited by Lizard333; 10-17-2012 at 02:32 PM.
"The right of the people to keep and bear...arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country..." (James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434 [June 8, 1789])
Once the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.
Benjamin Franklin
I believe you mean rifling rather than threads...
Is this a......what day is this??
Correction noted. Thanks.
"The right of the people to keep and bear...arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country..." (James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434 [June 8, 1789])
Once the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.
Benjamin Franklin
Sounds like you are single point cut rifling like Obermeyer, krieger, Bartlien and a few others.
Also sounds like you have the right machinery and a teacher that knows his way around the machine!
Great to see you are learning an almost lost art!
Bartlien has developed a CNC type machine to do their stuff, pretty amazing and the almost unlimited twist thing is certainly a step forward but much less human skill involved.
You are definitely seeing how much time and skill is involved!
Not a walk in the park but well worth it for some.
Here is some pics of the of the cutting.
Attachment 48756
Attachment 48757
Attachment 48758
Attachment 48759
"The right of the people to keep and bear...arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country..." (James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434 [June 8, 1789])
Once the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.
Benjamin Franklin
Can you post a link to the full-resolution pics?
Oreo. I don't know how to do that. If someone wants I can email them the originals.
So last night we contoured the barrel.
We used an existing barrel as a guide and transferred the taper over to my barrel.
We started to get some hop on the cutter so out came that HEAVY bar. Took two of us to lift it. Every pass with the cutting, we had to readjust the guide as the diameter would change. The hard part was getting the barrel in the lathe and the template barrel lined up perfectly. Took a while for sure.
Here we are adjusting the rollers.
Attachment 48790
Back side of the lathe.
Just finishing up end of the barrel after cutting to length. The barrel is 28 inches long with a 6.5/1 twist. I won't be able to thread the barrel or chamber for about two weeks as I have to go out of town. I'll update this when I get back.
Last edited by Lizard333; 10-19-2012 at 01:58 PM.
"The right of the people to keep and bear...arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country..." (James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434 [June 8, 1789])
Once the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.
Benjamin Franklin
Well, after going out of town for work, I finally got to work on the barrel some more. We got the final profile on the barrel done, and got to the thread the barrel last night. A tight fit, the threads turned out great. Tonight we chamber the barrel.
Attachment 49690
Attachment 49691
"The right of the people to keep and bear...arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country..." (James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434 [June 8, 1789])
Once the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.
Benjamin Franklin
Looking good!
Well, I'm finally done!! We chambered the barrel and sanded the profile. After that we sandblasted the barrel for that mat finish. I am very happy with how it turned out.
Attachment 54254
Attachment 54255
I'll get some pics tonight of the finished rifle and my first target!!
"The right of the people to keep and bear...arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country..." (James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434 [June 8, 1789])
Once the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.
Benjamin Franklin
Thought I would throw something out there. I am a dealer for Green Mountain and use some of their barrel. I also use McGowen barrels and I have my own rifling machine where I do custom barrels. I don't have a deep hole drill ( gun drill) so I sometimes buy drilled blanks, no rifling. McGowen will drill a SS blank for you so you can start with the proper 416 SS and a drilled and reamed hole.
Sticky??
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