20 GA Lyman Foster Slug Load Data

[Daryl]

I've gone back about 2 years on the posts here to review what's been posted so far. I've Googled and searched a bunch but can't find an actual load for what I'm looking for.

I'd like to use 2 3/4" Cheddite hulls because they are readily available through Grafs and I get stuff from there a lot. They also have the WAA20 wads. I've got the Lyman slug mold on the way.

I want something for smooth bore use.

In one of the posts I picked up the suggestion of these Cheddite hulls, a Federal 20S1 wad, the Lyman slug and the use of a 20 GA card between the powder and the wad and then a 28GA .125 card in the wad before the slug. Then this has a fold crimp - which I prefer to do.

There were powder suggestions in that post but no loads.

I have picked up a #4 buck load in one reloading manual. It uses these Cheddite hulls, calls for a TC20 wad (but I used the WAA20), 24.0 HS-6, 18 # 4 buck pellets (approx 7/8 oz), an OS20 overshot card, and crimp. I like them very much. They function well in my Mossberg SA-20 and are a pleasure to shoot. The feel very much like the off-the-shelf Federal loads I got.

The purpose of the slug load is to make it easy for me to cast and practice. I tried casting the Lee #4 shot but that's a real pain. I also want to use it as a more effective load at distances not appropriate for the buckshot load.

[DODGEM250]

I've gone back about 2 years on the posts here to review what's been posted so far. I've Googled and searched a bunch but can't find an actual load for what I'm looking for.

I'd like to use 2 3/4" Cheddite hulls because they are readily available through Grafs and I get stuff from there a lot. They also have the WAA20 wads. I've got the Lyman slug mold on the way.

I want something for smooth bore use. No. No. No....

In one of the posts I picked up the suggestion of these Cheddite hulls, a Federal 20S1 wad, the Lyman slug and the use of a 20 GA card between the powder and the wad and then a 28GA .125 card in the wad before the slug. Then this has a fold crimp - which I prefer to do.

There were powder suggestions in that post but no loads.

I have picked up a #4 buck load in one reloading manual. It uses these Cheddite hulls, calls for a TC20 wad (but I used the WAA20), 24.0 HS-6, 18 # 4 buck pellets (approx 7/8 oz), an OS20 overshot card, and crimp. I like them very much. They function well in my Mossberg SA-20 and are a pleasure to shoot. The feel very much like the off-the-shelf Federal loads I got.

The purpose of the slug load is to make it easy for me to cast and practice. I tried casting the Lee #4 shot but that's a real pain. I also want to use it as a more effective load at distances not appropriate for the buckshot load.

Sounds like you want to "make bullets", but, have no intentions of hitting the same thing twice. The whole slug / wad thing is designed mostly for rifled barrels. Punching a wad out of a smoothbore is not going to give much in accuracy over distance.

I cast my own .58 Minie bullet and reload them in the same similar combination as you stated for 20 gauge, but, I only use my reloads in my rifled slug gun. I need to place a consistent shot on a Deer, a smoothbore is not likely to do that. When that slug/wad leaves the
barrel, it could go anywhere. This is what my cast and reload looks like in 20 gauge. The filler wad in this photo is no longer used now. This is my answer to the more expensive Remington BuckHammer.

I use 26 grains of Hodgdon HS-6 for my charge with a 2-3/4" hull. BPI Commander wad, and I fold crimp as well. The filler / card is of no requirement here. My reloads and recoil feel the same as compared to the Remington BuckHammer 20 ga. slugs. Practically spot-on.

Also pictured below is a sample of the 4 different hulls I prefer to reload with. Very sturdy hulls and I can reload them many times each. The Remington on the Left and the Federal on the right are super strong hulls. I prefer the Federal over the Remington because it is a high-brass base. The Winchester is "ok", but, not my top choice. I will also tell you this. If you order new/primed hulls, be sure to measure the hull. The new hulls I ordered from BPI were 1/4" too tall when they are marked 2-3/4" you still have to trim them down.

[ovendoctor]

I've gone back about 2 years on the posts here to review what's been posted so far. I've Googled and searched a bunch but can't find an actual load for what I'm looking for.

I'd like to use 2 3/4" Cheddite hulls because they are readily available through Grafs and I get stuff from there a lot. They also have the WAA20 wads. I've got the Lyman slug mold on the way.

I want something for smooth bore use.

In one of the posts I picked up the suggestion of these Cheddite hulls, a Federal 20S1 wad, the Lyman slug and the use of a 20 GA card between the powder and the wad and then a 28GA .125 card in the wad before the slug. Then this has a fold crimp - which I prefer to do.

There were powder suggestions in that post but no loads.

I have picked up a #4 buck load in one reloading manual. It uses these Cheddite hulls, calls for a TC20 wad (but I used the WAA20), 24.0 HS-6, 18 # 4 buck pellets (approx 7/8 oz), an OS20 overshot card, and crimp. I like them very much. They function well in my Mossberg SA-20 and are a pleasure to shoot. The feel very much like the off-the-shelf Federal loads I got.

The purpose of the slug load is to make it easy for me to cast and practice. I tried casting the Lee #4 shot but that's a real pain. I also want to use it as a more effective load at distances not appropriate for the buckshot load.

with the Lyman slug the trick on smooth bore is fitting/slugging the shotgun barrel
with a slug/wad combination
the slug has to be cast 100% [no voids,lines ect]

in 12 ga my Ithaca 37 tosses them at about 4-6'' at 100 yards on a good day[ME]
that is with 12 R wads it does not like the AA12F114 at all,it throws them all over

hope this helps

Doc.

[Daryl]

Sounds like you want to "make bullets", but, have no intentions of hitting the same thing twice. The whole slug / wad thing is designed mostly for rifled barrels. Punching a wad out of a smoothbore is not going to give much in accuracy over distance.

I cast my own .58 Minie bullet and reload them in the same similar combination as you stated for 20 gauge, but, I only use my reloads in my rifled slug gun. I need to place a consistent shot on a Deer, a smoothbore is not likely to do that. When that slug/wad leaves the
barrel, it could go anywhere. This is what my cast and reload looks like in 20 gauge. The filler wad in this photo is no longer used now. This is my answer to the more expensive Remington BuckHammer.

I use 26 grains of Hodgdon HS-6 for my charge with a 2-3/4" hull. BPI Commander wad, and I fold crimp as well. The filler / card is of no requirement here. My reloads and recoil feel the same as compared to the Remington BuckHammer 20 ga. slugs. Practically spot-on.

Also pictured below is a sample of the 4 different hulls I prefer to reload with. Very sturdy hulls and I can reload them many times each. The Remington on the Left and the Federal on the right are super strong hulls. I prefer the Federal over the Remington because it is a high-brass base. The Winchester is "ok", but, not my top choice. I will also tell you this. If you order new/primed hulls, be sure to measure the hull. The new hulls I ordered from BPI were 1/4" too tall when they are marked 2-3/4" you still have to trim them down.

You kind of have it - I want to "make bullets" because it's so much easier than making #4 buck and cheaper than buying #4 buck. My main purpose is to be able to practice and "plink" a fair bit with my tactical 20 ga semi auto for function, etc. If it is accurate at all (a few inch group at 25-50 yds), it may serve as a decent tactical load for a bit better range than the buck shot.

[35remington]

Dodge, you were a bit hard on the OP. I shoot slugs for the very same reason as he does out of smoothbores, and that doesn't make me a second class citizen.

His quest can be a worthwhile one. Just needs a little guidance. Smoothbores can shoot slugs just fine for a lot of uses.

[Adam10mm]

Sounds like you want to "make bullets", but, have no intentions of hitting the same thing twice. The whole slug / wad thing is designed mostly for rifled barrels. Punching a wad out of a smoothbore is not going to give much in accuracy over distance.

That's pretty ignorant.

I need to place a consistent shot on a Deer, a smoothbore is not likely to do that. When that slug/wad leaves the barrel, it could go anywhere.

Inside 75y, it won't leave the vitals. A vast majority of deer is killed within 50 yards, so distance really isn't much of an issue here.

The Remington on the Left and the Federal on the right are super strong hulls. I prefer the Federal over the Remington because it is a high-brass base. The Winchester is "ok", but, not my top choice.

In the 20ga, Remington hulls top everything. Winchester and Federal are OK, but don't hold a crimp as long as Remington hulls and don't have as much volume. Winchester and Federal are in the "one and done" category as far as reloading is concerned. Buy a batch of hulls or factory ammo, reload them once and be done with them. I get about 14-15 reloads out of Remington hulls. Not even have that life from Winchester or Federal hulls.

[Daryl]

Sounds like you want to "make bullets", but, have no intentions of hitting the same thing twice. The whole slug / wad thing is designed mostly for rifled barrels. Punching a wad out of a smoothbore is not going to give much in accuracy over distance.

I cast my own .58 Minie bullet and reload them in the same similar combination as you stated for 20 gauge, but, I only use my reloads in my rifled slug gun. I need to place a consistent shot on a Deer, a smoothbore is not likely to do that. When that slug/wad leaves the
barrel, it could go anywhere. This is what my cast and reload looks like in 20 gauge. The filler wad in this photo is no longer used now. This is my answer to the more expensive Remington BuckHammer.

I use 26 grains of Hodgdon HS-6 for my charge with a 2-3/4" hull. BPI Commander wad, and I fold crimp as well. The filler / card is of no requirement here. My reloads and recoil feel the same as compared to the Remington BuckHammer 20 ga. slugs. Practically spot-on.

Also pictured below is a sample of the 4 different hulls I prefer to reload with. Very sturdy hulls and I can reload them many times each. The Remington on the Left and the Federal on the right are super strong hulls. I prefer the Federal over the Remington because it is a high-brass base. The Winchester is "ok", but, not my top choice. I will also tell you this. If you order new/primed hulls, be sure to measure the hull. The new hulls I ordered from BPI were 1/4" too tall when they are marked 2-3/4" you still have to trim them down.

You kind of have it - I want to "make bullets" because it's so much easier than making #4 buck and cheaper than buying #4 buck. My main purpose is to be able to practice and "plink" a fair bit with my tactical 20 ga semi auto for function, etc. If it is accurate at all (a few inch group at 25-50 yds), it may serve as a decent tactical load for a bit better range than the buck shot.

[DODGEM250]

You kind of have it - I want to "make bullets" because it's so much easier than making #4 buck and cheaper than buying #4 buck. My main purpose is to be able to practice and "plink" a fair bit with my tactical 20 ga semi auto for function, etc. If it is accurate at all (a few inch group at 25-50 yds), it may serve as a decent tactical load for a bit better range than the buck shot.

I'm glad to see you understand what I was saying. I'm with you all the way on your intentions.

[DODGEM250]

Dodge, you were a bit hard on the OP. I shoot slugs for the very same reason as he does out of smoothbores, and that doesn't make me a second class citizen.

His quest can be a worthwhile one. Just needs a little guidance. Smoothbores can shoot slugs just fine for a lot of uses.

Easy killer, don't take the reply so far out the arena. You know what it means to shoot a cast slug in a personal powder load out of a smoothbore. I don't know anyone who has gotten it right yet. I was certainly not hard on, I was certainly honest however. Try a forum called Maryland Shooters and see all of the data regarding shot gun slug casting and reloading there. It blows away any related information found here on CB's.

[DODGEM250]

That's pretty ignorant. No, that's pretty accurate.


Inside 75y, it won't leave the vitals. A vast majority of deer is killed within 50 yards, so distance really isn't much of an issue here.

This is true. Never said a thing about distance.


In the 20ga, Remington hulls top everything. Winchester and Federal are OK, but don't hold a crimp as long as Remington hulls and don't have as much volume. Winchester and Federal are in the "one and done" category as far as reloading is concerned. Buy a batch of hulls or factory ammo, reload them once and be done with them. I get about 14-15 reloads out of Remington hulls. Not even have that life from Winchester or Federal hulls.

That is true also. However, I don't shot that much. I reload for target and Deer hunting. I shoot the shell. It doesn't get reloaded. I'm not debating how long the hulls will last or how many times you can reload them. I'm discussing the thickness of the hull wall.

[35remington]

"Sounds like you want to "make bullets", but, have no intentions of hitting the same thing twice."

That was a little harsh.

"The whole slug / wad thing is designed mostly for rifled barrels. Punching a wad out of a smoothbore is not going to give much in accuracy over distance."

Well, no. The OP's question was reasonable.

A wadslug can be viable out of a smoothbore. I do just that.

[DODGEM250]

Ok, since you guys can not seem to grasp the context of my comment, I'll apologize for the way I may have stated my comment. Harsh it is not. Truthful it is. I will be grateful when a computer is finally capable of processing human emotion and expression.

Hello Daryl,

I want to apologize directly to you if you also felt my reply was harsh. It was not meant to be harsh by any means, but, some guys out there get themselves involved in other replies simply to make themselves sound like a guru on the subject. The point of my comment was somewhat "jokingly" but words obvious get taken the wrong way when you can not see face-to-face that it was a light-hearted comment regarding a subject I have wasted a lot of lead and power on. Let me explain the reason I stated this the way I did.

When you use a "rifled slug" like a Remington Slugger for example, the slug is cast with lands/grooves aka "Rifling" Its purpose is to offer some form of rotation for the slug to provide some form of consistent accuracy in a smoothbore barrel. A smoothbore barrel and a smooth plastic wad provides no "rifling".

When you cast a lead slug, that is not molded with integral rifling and you have to use a plastic wad, in a smoothbore, that is like shooting a spitball out of a straw. There is nothing there to give it any rotation, which makes it consistent and accurate at a distance. Hence the comment, "...cast bullets but not hit the same thing twice." This is not harsh, it is fact. I hope you understand the point of my comment at this point.

When you use a cast slug in a plastic wad, it has to be used with a rifled barrel, since the plastic wads purpose is to have the rifling grooves of the barrel cut in to the wad, which in turn provides the rotation for the slug, to be consistently accurate. This same theory applies to sabot muzzleloader bullets. The same reason why people use a rifled barrel for hunting instead of smoothbore barrels and lead balls. History of wars with muskets proves they closed their eyes, pulled the trigger, and prayed for the best... When your bullet/slug/ball has no form of guidance, it will pan right or left and always tumble unless the trophy or enemy is in the yard marker for you to "see whites of their eyes". This statement exists for a reason fellas...

Maybe I should have just typed all of this in the beginning and the misunderstandings of my comment would have been realized directly, instead of being taking without thought, and also taken the wrong way.

Thanks for your time. Dodgem250

[DODGEM250]

"Sounds like you want to "make bullets", but, have no intentions of hitting the same thing twice."

That was a little harsh.

"The whole slug / wad thing is designed mostly for rifled barrels. Punching a wad out of a smoothbore is not going to give much in accuracy over distance."

Well, no. The OP's question was reasonable.

A wadslug can be viable out of a smoothbore. I do just that.

Before you miss this point, I'll make myself clear. I am not attacking YOU (35remington) anyway, but, I am confronting the statement head on.

That is all fine and dandy. If you're shooting cans and paper. However, I would never let you in the Deer hunting woods with me, shooting at a live animal, with this method, unless we both agreed that you know not to shoot at more than a designated distance. That being 30 or less yards. I AM putting my foot down on ethics and morals of hunting, firmly, on this statement.

Now if you (meaning anyone in general) wish to sling lead at a non-living, non-breathing object, you have my permission to sling away. I do not know if you are a Hunter or a paper-puncher, but, there is big difference between the two. Paper feels no pain and if you miss off the mark, who cares. You don't do that while hunting animals. That matters.

[DODGEM250]

I also feel I need to mention the reason why the Wad/Slug theory came in to play again, and we all know it has been a popular topic since the invention of the "sabot slug" for rifled slug barrels.

The cast slug and plastic wad combo in a standard shotshell was not intended for use in a smoothbore barrel to begin with. The rifled slug for these barrels has been around for decades. No need to reinvent the wheel here. As mentioned before, the integral rifling is integral for a reason.

The popularity, testing, and theory of the "cast slug in a plastic shotshell wad" is directly related to the high prices of commercial shotshell sabot-slugs. The point was the fact that everyone is looking for a cheaper alternative to shotgun sabot-slugs in a rifled barrel. The combination was never intended for use in a smoothbore barrel, nor does it make any sense to use this combination of components. The theory is not proper for practical use other than just plain "slinging lead" where hitting the mark consistently and accurately at a distance is of no concern.

The sabot slug was invented to turn a shotgun in to a rifle, This also is the same principle that gives us the modern muzzleloader with it's advantages, it is a round-about way to give us a rifle in a musket and a bullet over a lead ball, theoretically, offering the 200 yard plus shots that a traditional slug or patched ball would not provide.

We all know, atleast the "we" who have experience with the traditional slugs know, that a traditional slug is fairly open to "praying" after 75 yards. With a slug/wad combo, I would not even pray for 75 yards.

[turbo1889]

In many cases I find the "wad-slug" loading arrangement to actually be easier to make work in smooth bore slug guns then in rifled barrel slug guns. A shot wad used as a slug carrier isn't always up to the task of transferring the rotational forces from the rifling to the slug without problems arising due to a shot wad being a lot thinner and structurally weaker and often made of softer plastic then a true sabot. Wad-slug loads fired in a smooth bore slug gun don’t have these additional torsional stress loads applied to the wad and I have found less fiddling with a wad-slug load is necessary to get it to perform consistently from a smooth bore gun compared to a rifled barrel slug gun.

Using "wad-slugs" in a smooth bore does make a whole lot of sense on at least two points. First of all there is the simplicity and ease of loading and familiarity of the components for those used to loading shot loads. Simply putting a slug inside of the wad instead of shot makes loading quick, simple, and easy for those used to loading modern shot loads. Secondly wad-slugs don't lead the bore and require no lubrication or wax coating to alleviate this issue since the lead slug has the plastic petals of the wad in-between it and the inside walls of the barrel.

I’m not saying that they don’t have their disadvantages compared to a full bore diameter slug that rides on the bore but the level of maliciousness in the post above towards the very idea and the absolute insistence that it is for rifled barrels only is uncalled for especially considering that it appears that the author hasn’t had enough side-by-side comparison experience with multiple slug styles, loading styles, and load development experience complete with pressure trace recording instrumentation in both smooth bore and rifled barrels to seem to be aware that the inherent problems with the wad-slug concept, which most certainly do exist, rear their ugly heads more often and with more veracity when used in rifle slug barrels then when used in smooth bore guns. Additionally his reference to the integral rifling in a rifled slug being integral for a reason is also somewhat telling that his comments are not based on actual experience but rather the old wife’s tales that have long since been proven false complete with the aero-pressure wave tests and results completed by McBirch who is a defense industry engineer by trade as his day job which finally put the lid on the coffin of that when he was able to show that the rifling on a rifled slug only imparts a rotational force after the slug slows to a flight speed less then the speed of sound and even then the RPM’s created are not sufficient to stabilize the slug by rotation alone since the measured rotational velocity achieved was only about 720 RPM which in ballistic terms is practically the same as no rotation at all and may actually destabilize the slug. Now it is true that the rifling on a full bore diameter rifled slug does perform a vital function in that it allows the slug to safely swag down when fired through a gun with a constrictive bird shot choke in the end of the barrel and that is indeed a vital function but that function is just as easily served with straight rifling without a twist as it is with a twist. In a wad-slug the soft thin petals of the wad serve an equivalent function since the soft plastic squeezes down in the choke and in a tight choke the petals can even be completely severed by the squeeze.

Can wad-slugs loads be made that shoot just as accurately out of a smooth bore slug gun as a full bore diameter slug ~ Yes, but it usually takes more work and fiddling with the load to get it just right compared to a full bore slug.

Can wad-slug load be made that shoot just as accurately out of a rifled barrel slug gun as a full bore diameter slug or a true sabot slug ~ Maybe, if you work really hard on the load and the full bore or true sabot slug load you are comparing it too hasn’t been worked on just as hard and tuned to the gun as well.

The best most consistently accurate shooting wad slug load I have ever come up out of a rifled barrel slug gun can consistently hold a 3” group or smaller at 100 yards. It took a lot of work and a lot of trial and error to come up with that load that worked in that particular gun and unfortunately the velocity of the load and weight and design of the projectile used wasn’t high enough for me to consider it worthy of anything more then deer at that range on a broad side facing or quartering away shot on the chest cavity.

Conversely the most consistently accurate shooting wad slug load I have every come up with out of a smooth bore gun can consistently hold a about a 5” group at 100 yards. It didn’t take even a third of the load development work to develop it and it is a powerful load pushing a 1-1/8oz. WFN hard cast lead slug to a muzzle velocity of just over 1,700-fps. and I would not hesitate to take a shot on anything in North America with that load out to about a maximum range of 125 yards depending on the size of the target animal (as in how big of a target area do I have and how big can my pattern be and still hit the vitals).

It is true that those performance levels do pale to what I have been able to do with full bore slug loads in both rifled and smooth bore guns but the performance gap is greatest between the full bore slugs and the wad-slugs not in the smooth bore gun application but rather the rifled barrel slug gun application. My best load for my rifled barrel slug guns is one load I have for one of my 20ga. guns that puts a 1-oz solid slug consistently in a 2-1/2” group at 200 yards with a muzzle velocity of nearly 1,800-fps and my best smooth bore load is a 12ga. load firing a 1-3/8oz. hollow base non-rifled foster slug with a squatty short TC nose shape at about 1,400 fps muzzle velocity that prints about a 3” group consistently at 100 yards. Those levels of performance most certainly exceed what is possible with a wad-slug but the gap in performance is greater for the rifled barrel applications then it is for the smooth bore applications and it takes more dedication to get a wad-slug to shoot to the top of its potential in a rifled barrel slug gun then in a smooth bore slug gun.

I would note that I have had much better luck with wad-slugs in 12ga. then in 20ga. I believe this is mainly due to the fact that wads that work best in the wad-slug set-up are more available for the 12ga. then the 20ga. It is also true that the factory of the shelf wad-slug options are also better for the 12ga. then the 20ga. especially in the case of the two Lyman wad-slug molds which are night and day, very bad and pretty good, for the 20ga. and 12ga. respectively but that situation can be addressed with a custom mold where as the problem of availability of wads that are best suited for use with wad-slugs is not so easily solved with the 20ga.

[35remington]

Dodge, you immediately took the OP's desire for a wad slug as a second class citizen request, and he said nothing about hunting at all. That's what I was objecting to.

Quite frankly, I would use the rifled barrel in preference to most loadings of the smoothbore for hunting save for certain pursuits, but the rifling takes away from the viability of a buckshot loaded shotgun, which is what many carry a shotgun for......self defense. Inexpensive, reasonable practice with a wad/slug is far more economically viable than the sixty to eighty cents per shot for Foster slugs from the factory. And the accuracy and utility is more than good enough for that use.

If the gun doesn't place them in the same hole it does not mean it's useless. Or nobody would shoot handguns for self defense.

A wad/slug makes good sense when applied to frequent practice, cost, and reasonable results for a day of familiarization with one's chosen gun.

Nobody was making any claims sufficient to get you all up in arms. And I most assuredly am not wasting my time loading wad/slugs for smoothbore practice. I'm up to 1300 rounds so far this year and consider it time well spent. At 25 and 50 yards, accuracy is quite good.......and quite adequate for what it's for. That you do not consider it a good choice for hunting use is absolutely and completely irrelevant. As I said, nobody but you mentioned it.

And I am quite sure the OP and I did not ask to go deer hunting with you using smoothbore shotgun and wad/slugs. So you don't have to worry about whether you would "allow" us in the woods or not. I myself am very well apprised of the capabilities of my own smoothbores. Better than any who would presume to lecture me.

[ka0tqv]

Would appreciate for names and addresses of people who rifle shot gun barrels.
Thanks Carl Arndt 24400 W 93rd N, Mt. Hope, KS 67108 Email ka0tqv@juno.com 3rd digit is a ZERO and not an OH. My radio amateur call sign.

[Janoosh]

Once again the falsehood prevails that fins on a shotgun slug are rifleing, and are present to spin the slug. The fins ( rifleing ) are so a slug will ease thru a choked bore and create less drag. Slow speed photos have shown that the shotshell payload spins on it's own. Hastings recognized this and created straight rifled barrels for a tighter shot pattern. Secondly, many users here have posted of their accurate results using a round ball in a smoothbore shotgun. Lastly...."Allowed to Hunt".... What Pomposity! ?...Apologies to all.....rant over

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Hello Daryl, Check my post # 185 for Lyman 20 ga slug loads here:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-Sabot!/page10
this is the loading data that comes with the mold.

I'm proud to be a Elite Musketeer, among other Elite Musketeer's here.
" One for all & All for one "

Best regards,
Ajay
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http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/view...f=118&t=196961
http://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/fo...p?f=43&t=39246
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