Snubbies at distance

[David LaPell]

I read something the other day where the author said the snub nosed revolver was pretty much useless after 10 or 15 yards. I decided to put that to the test. I took my little 649 out to 25 yards with some of my small game hunting loads, 130 grain SWC's with 4.7 grains of Win 231. I shot the gun offhand, one handed and you can see for yourself. Trying to even see the sights at that distance were kind of tough and while certainly not good enough for hunting, it certainly would make it hot for an opponent not that I could ever imagine wanting or trying to explain a defensive shooting at that range. Still it did pretty well all things considered.

[9.3X62AL]

The assertions made by "experts" that snubbies aren't effective past 10-15 yards are HOGWASH, as you very capably illustrated. Nice shooting--tiny grips, crude sighting gear, and all. A violent assailant at that range would have been soundly thrilled, at minimum.

Goblins make up their own rules of engagement. Only statistics indicate that the majority of armed exchanges of finality are at bad-breath distance, and your goblin may not have gotten the memo. At least FAMILIARIZE yourself with your carry gun's and load's performance at extended ranges. Never say "never", never say "always". EVERY range session with my carry guns includes 25 rounds each at 25 and 50 yards.

[Larry in MT]

I remember Bob Munden hitting a 12" balloon @ 200 yards with a Model 60. I've killed Coyotes both with a aluminum Model 38 and a Model 60. They were certainly farther than 25 yards. The Model 60, however, DOES have adj sights.

[MT Gianni]

In general I interpret the writers that claim this to mean that they can't do it.

[Lonegun1894]

My mom used to have a little Taurus 85 .38 Spl, that I really wish she would have told me before she sold, because I would have gladly bought it due to the accuracy it showed. For what it's worth, this is coming from someone who in general dislikes Taurus due to some bad experiences with a few of their guns. This specific revolver would stay on a 6" paper plate out to 60 yds, and would to 2" at 25yds, even with the standard fixed sights on it. I currently have a Ruger SP-101 that I carry as my back-up, and while I like it and trust it much more than I ever would any Taurus, this snubbie will only do about 3-4" at 25yds with any load I have tried so far, but I have not worked up a specific load for it yet, so I'm hoping this improves. Either way, I don't buy anyone telling me that a snubbie is only good to 10-15yds. The "shooting expert" may only be good to that range, but the gun is almost always better than the shooter holding it. I think we have all proven that to ourselves many times over.

[375RUGER]

With the right gun and load and shooter there is less chance of collateral damage from stray projectiles.
I came home one day to find a 4 pack of wilddogs in the yard. I pulled up the gate and drew the .38 as I got out. The center of my driveway is the 35yd line of my archery range. I dropped the first one right in front of my archery target. The second one fell at 250yds with the 22-250, he only thought he was out of range-he came short.
Snubbies can be very effective beyond 21 feet.

[375RUGER]

Lonegun,
if you want to shoot j-words in the SP, try the Speer 110g GD sometime. It's lighter than I like but is accurate from short barrels which is more important to me. It's deadly too.

[subsonic]

Anybody who can't hit past 15 yards with a snubbie has some issues.

Some snubbies and loads are a crappy combination, but if you treat it like a bigger gun and work loads and practice, you will be very surprised at what they can do. The biggest handicap is the tiny fixed sights. Hard to get a hit when a perfect sight picture throws shots 6ft left of your target at 50yds.... like my SP101 did with anything I fed it. The groups were pretty good though - just had to look at your buddy's target to see them!

Hits, even out to 100yds, on a vital area of a man silhouette, are very do-able.

[Dframe]

I've heard that one for years. Today I just ignore people so uninformed. I regularly shoot my Detective Special at 15 yards, and once knocked over a steel plate at 50 yards in front of several witnesses. Now I'll admit there was a bit of luck involved , but it sure was fun watching all those jaws hit the floor

[mongo]

I have a SP101 in .38 special that I purchased when they first came out. Only authorized to use .38 special, At 25 yds it puts them all in the black. Wanted to change out the cyl. to .357 but Ruger said it cant be done.

[**oneshot**]

I was also told that my 10" barrel, open sight handguns should not be on the 100yd range.

The snubbie is only harder to shoot at longer range due to the sight radius. If you can keep a consistant sight picture then you can shoot them out to way past 25yds.

[Aunegl]

In the mid 90s, I shot IHMSA field pistol using my Taurus 441, 3" barrel. I knocked down just 8 out of 40 targets and three of those were 100 meter rams. It was hard and fun, knowing that I could reach out and touch something at a 100 meters. So it can be done.

[44man]

If the gun and load is accurate then it will shoot far---VERY far.
The problem will be the short sight radius and your eyes.

[I'll Make Mine]

I remember Bob Munden hitting a 12" balloon @ 200 yards with a Model 60.

I've seen him (on Impossible Shots) do that (balloon at 200 yards) with an NAA 2-inch .22 LR -- held upside down. I don't consider "Bob Munden can do it" to say anything about what's actually possible for real people.

That said, I can very consistently hit a human sized silhouette target at 50 yards with my 6" Dan Wesson Model 15 (.357 Magnum, 158 JSP over a stiff charge of H-110) and with my High Standard Sentinel Deluxe (cheap Federal .22 LR); shorter sight radius would be the only thing preventing doing the same with a two or three inch barrel.

[geargnasher]

My wife's Model 36 Chief's Special will shoot into 1.5" at 25 yards repeatedly if I just rest my wrist on a bag or a post using 2.9 grains of BE with a 158 full-wadcutter. It's fun to "show off" with at public ranges, it's minute of coke can accurate at 25 yards offhand even with me shooting it. The stocks are just too dang small, though, can't really "get ahold" of it well.

Gear

[Dale53]

A number of years ago I was VERY active in IPSC. I was relating my match experiences (very positive) of the day before to a shotgunning friend of mine. He made the statement that he thought a 1911 couldn't hit a barn from the inside. It kind of got under my skin and I told him I could hit a mansize silhouette at 100 yards 5 out of seven times in a magazine. Then, I put my foot in my mouth, when I told him, I can hit that silhouette with any handgun you have. "I will load the gun and before it is empty, regardless of your handgun, I will make at least one hit on that silhouette".

Long story short. He traveled to my range (he lived out of town) and brought every handgun he owned. Well, I had to make good. I started with my 1911 - it was standard configuration but had a complete accuracy job with high visibility fixed sights. It would shoot 2" at fifty yards off a Ransom Rest. I had eight in the gun (seven in the mag and one in the chamber). I laid down in the roll over prone position and proceeded to hit the silhouette eight times in the "B" zone. Nice group in the center of the torso.

I started shooting his handguns. I was doing fine and easily meeting my challenge (it was dry and I just watched the hits to learn where to hold with each handgun). Then my "friend" handed me a .38 snubnose (a "J" frame smith). I held on a bush up above the silhouette and hit it the last two shots. He was a believer after that. However, he had a new Model 59 Smith that I figured was a snap. WRONG! It was shooting so bad, that I could hit nothing with it.

I was so surprised that I put the 59 on the bench and it wouldn't even stay on the paper at 25 yards (yep, that large NRA 25 yard target)! My friend stopped at a sporting goods store on the way home and traded it off, post haste!

My friend is a wealthy individual (bird hunts in Mexico, etc). He hangs out at the trap club with a bunch of wealthy people. He told them the story, and they expressed doubt that a forty five could be shot that well. His reply, "Bet your house?" I sure made a believer out of him.

Lest you think that I am bragging, I will tell you we had (at our club) at least a dozen IPSC competitors who could do the same thing on demand. That was a GOOD bunch of competitors, for sure.

FWIW
Dale53

[historicfirearms]

I have a steel plate about 12 X 16 inches hung up in my back yard. For practice I take about 3 big handfulls of 38 spl reloads and start out about 20 yards from the plate. I'll either use my M&P 340 or 442 and if I hit 4 out of 5 rounds on steel I will back up another 10 paces. Most of the time I can make it all the way back to my 100 yard rifle rest before I run out of ammo. Its fun to learn what kind of holdover you need with lightly loaded 38 specials at 100 yards. Flight time is also considerable.

[BD]

I shoot the local steel challenge once a week with a 1911 and a .22. Targets are 5 to 20 yards. My times with the 1911, (which includes a draw) run in the 4 second range, With the .22/45, (no draw, no recoil), run in the 2-3 second range. Once a month or so I shoot this with my .38 snubby carry gun and the times run in the 5 second range. The primary reasons for the snubby being slower are sight picture acquisition and my need to slow dawn and make sure I make the hit as there are 5 targets and I only have 5 rounds, a miss being 5 seconds added, and a miss on the stop plate being 30 seconds added.

I shoot the 1911 and the 22/45 at 100 yards from time to time and I can usually make 3 or 5 hits per mag off hand. The sights are tall enough on both to keep a decent "hold point". The snubby is much harder as the sights are so short that the hold is top of rear sight somewhere on the barrel, all surfaces being dark. On a wet day, (no dust prints), I'm doing good to make one hit out of five on an IDPA cardboard target with the snubby. It's not the gun, it's just that 100 yards exceeds the design parameters of the entire platform.
BD

[357maximum]

I have always looked at it this way.

"THE BOOLIT HAS TO LAND SOMEWHERE"

I have had good days and bad days trying to do "impossile" things with a varied assortment of projectile launching devices. Just ignoring the naysayers and actually trying it will prove a whole lot of them naysayers to be absolutely choc-full-of-bull. I once put 3 out of 5 arrows into a 175 yard 4inch circle with a recurve....I was having a great day and won a few turkeys that I donated back to the club. I would not want to try it today, but if given enough arrows and time......

[RetAFSF]

I've never tried shooting that distance, stands to reason it can be done. Drawback is the shooters inability to hold the firearm steady, a short barrel increases the probability of missing the target. Takes a bit of practice, practice and more practice.