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Thread: Who knows how to make box magazines from scratch?

  1. #21
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Goodsteel, I have made ONE from scratch and I have cut down and modified several with the help of a friend. My friend had a whole tinsmiths set from the 1880's. Anvils, bending jigs forming dies ect. I have been trying to buy this outfit from him for over 10 years now as it makes this tough job almost easy. The only thing we needed to make were a couple of lip forming dies.

  2. #22
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Cool! If you get a chance to take a picture, that would be even better!
    I love old tools. Back when men worked with their hands, their handtools were much more.......handy, ya know?
    Precision in the wrong place is only a placebo.

  3. #23
    Boolit Grand Master

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    This would take a number of pictures as there are two different anvils, maybe 15 different forming blocks a number of different bending jigs. The next time I am over there I will start on the pictures unless i can ply him with drinks and bring it all home with me.

  4. #24
    Boolit Mold
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    Quote Originally Posted by izzyjoe View Post
    Tim, sounds like you need to get some sheet metal and beat the hell out of it! just watch out for those fingers. i'd start out with some thin gauge stuff to start width. i got faith in you can do it!
    As a professional tinner ( one who makes air duct and installs it) I suggest 22ga sheet metal. My current idiot project is to make a detachable mag for my m44 mosin. Yeah yeah I've heard all the complaints. I started with light gauge but the standard of sheet metal is slot of guess work. Some times it stretches and other times it warps. Start with a 2 piece 5 sided box (braze able). After several failed attempts, I moved up to 22ga and after two tries I got it. The follower is a modified spring from a 91/30. Now I'm working on the eject switch.
    Now keep in mind I have 24/7 access to a full tin shop and the scraps pile. Like Tim said. Get a hammer. And get ready to get nicked a time or to, but I'm positive you can do it. Look up a local hvac shop if your need arises.

  5. #25
    Boolit Master
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    Check out you tube, I seem to remember there being a video shot in some eastern european country and it did go into detail how the ak mags were made. Or try google as you never know what pops up. Frank

  6. #26
    Boolit Master
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    I made several for Rem 788, I shot a 308 in High Power matches and needed a magazine with a five round capacity.

    It took several tries to figure out.

    For welding I used a Brass backing plate and TIG welded.

    I used two right angle plates to make the box.

    The hardest part was making the lips at the top of the magazine.

  7. #27
    Boolit Buddy
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    http://www.amazon.com/Tool-Design-Cy...ds=tool+design

    Here is a book, it has a few chapters on sheet metal tooling and design, how much tonnage it takes, how to figure blank length and a lot of other good info, for the cost of the book it will be worth it for you to help understand more about sheetmetal work.

  8. #28
    Boolit Bub Possumcop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodsteel View Post
    Sheet metal is my Achilles heel. Some of the best sheet metal work I have ever seen is the box magazines that are in most of our guns.
    You know, every factory must have some yay-who master of the sheetmetal that builds the prototypes from scratch.
    That guy would be a really interesting feller to talk to.
    Don't tell me they just draw them up in solidworks and send the drawings to the shop to build the dies to make them, and just start chunking them out. If you have ever worked in manufacturing, you know that just doesn't happen. The engineers take their best guess, and end up being told how to change the drawings by the guy on the floor who knows how to make the stuff.
    Is this taught in any school?
    It just kills me that I can make every other piece of a firearm, except the magazine. Not that I'm going to go into business making AK mags or anything, but there are many instances where it would make all kinds of sense to be able to make things like that from scratch.
    Like a customer comes in (as has happened twice now) who wants a magazine for their vintage cheapo something or other. One of them I managed to find in an obscure place on the internet (don't remember where) and the other I'm still looking for, (Lorcin 25). In both cases, I told them that they should just scrap the pistol and get another one for $150, but people are funny. They say, just fix it, I don't care how much it costs! And cousin, let me tell you, they really don't care how much it costs!

    Now, I didn't start this thread because I need a magazine for a Lorcin pistol, (I believe I have found one)

    I just want to know who has this knowledge, and what their phone number is. Better yet, is there a book about 2" thick that covers all the intricacies of how to make sheet metal magazines?

    I'm thinking about using the hulk smash method. Just grab some sheetmetal and start bending and welding and recreate the magazines in the guns that I already own, using the originals as guides.

    What do you think?

    1- Fly to Pakistan.
    2- Take a bus up to the Khyber Pass.
    3- Ask for Achmed the mag maker.

    You're SET!
    7.62 NATO, It's kinda like 5.56 NATO, but for men...

  9. #29
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Possumcop View Post
    1- Fly to Pakistan.
    2- Take a bus up to the Khyber Pass.
    3- Ask for Achmed the mag maker.

    You're SET!
    No wonder I can't buy anything "made in the USA" anymore.
    Precision in the wrong place is only a placebo.

  10. #30
    Boolit Master

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    Funny that this should come up, i have been contemplating how to make a decent follower the actuall stays uin the magazine for my Rem 788 in 222.

    The pitiful excuse for a follower typically come out after the last round is fired.

    A coworker has developed a coyote problem so I am going to need a repeater or I will have to get things set up in an AR. Going for very frangible bullets as it is not that far to other houses.

    Any suggestions there would be appreciated by e-mail or PM.
    Amendments
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  11. #31
    Boolit Master Cap'n Morgan's Avatar
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    As long as there's not any deep draw process involved, sheet metal design is quite straightforward. Calculating the flattened profile is simple math based on plate thickness and the bending radius. Bending and folding can be accomplished with simple tooling made from scrap bits and pieces welded together. A hydraulic press is nice to have, but a large vise will do in a pinch - so to speak.
    For one-off jobs it might seem like overkill, but it's actually much easier to get a good result using fixtures and dedicated tooling.

    Here's a link that covers some of the basic tricks in sheet metal design:
    http://www.qualitytool.com/resources...dbook-Rev3.pdf

    For larger runs I would bribe someone with access to a laser or waterjet cutter to cut the flattened profile. If you can provided them with a good drawing or even better a DXF file, it's a matter of minutes to cut a bunch of plates.
    Cap'n Morgan

  12. #32
    Boolit Master greywuuf's Avatar
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    Hmm, I have a few of tangent but possibly related idea's ......one is a shot bag, I have seen one old guy take a wooden mallet a shot bag and a piece of sheet metal and form two nearly mirror image tank halves (motorcycle style) almost in less time than it takes to type this.....now that is dishing and stretching and may not be exactly relevant....but he definately understood how metal moved.....

    Second is...you can blow flat plates up like a baloon with a process called hydro forming....again might only be useful if you made up a die first but it has got me making some interesting two stroke exhaust with a lot less welding little cones together..

  13. #33
    Boolit Master
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    This appears to be a perfect project for 3D printing depending on if one can find a service center that will produce the magazines for you one on a one off basis. If one had a library of dimensions and the ability to transform the dimensions to software a magazine could be run off or any small number of magazines. They could be perfect.

    I have only seen the junky consumer 3D printers, but there are printers printing in metal and used by commercial enterprises. Look for somewhere that will act like a walk in copy center. Email the software and have them print and ship the mag to you.

    Considering the hard to get magazines, having a library of plans on software could be a nice business.

    There is also a gentleman in Europe who makes magazines for the 22 Steyr Zephyr a few at a time. Workmanship is beautiful. His name might be Phillip Sparholt (or close). If you want I can try to dig it out for you. He is a hobbyist and Mannlicher enthusiast. The magazines are the equal to the originals.

    A library of dimensions to use for 3D printing is the product for the future. Library + place to run a part off of a expensive machine is the business both for the owner of the software and the folks who rent out time on the machine. I vaguely recall there are already firms doing this now.

  14. #34
    Boolit Buddy
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    I learned from dad how to lighten spring tension by polishing it on my buffer. I think we are always learning something new because of the problems we face. Mag making would be challenging for me to learn, but would like to try. Good luck Tim. Keep us posted
    You know, there's an old saying, Miss Sally. There's no law west of the Dodge and no God west of the Pecos. Right, Mr. Chism? James Pepper

    Wrong, Mr. Pepper. Because no matter where people go, sooner or later there's the law. And sooner or later they find God's already been there. John Simpson Chism

  15. #35
    Boolit Mold
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    I have been working on a 788 mag follower for a 300 whisper I built. I think it will reduce the capacity by one. Then I will work on lengthening the mag so it will hold 8-10 rounds.

  16. #36
    Boolit Master freebullet's Avatar
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    I've modified a bunch of mags & drums. Never needed to make from scratch. A straight box mag shouldn't be out of line.

    My next mag project is to mate 2 p238 mags together. They were promags that never worked. I plan on turning them into 1 10-12 rnd mag simply for the fun of it & because none exist that I'm aware of.

    Another website you might get info from is the weapons guild. Please do let us see pics of your first scratch build attempts, either way they go lol.
    If you think your a hammer everything looks like a nail.

  17. #37
    Boolit Grand Master Artful's Avatar
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    Injection molding - hmmm - how about 3 D printing?
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  18. #38
    Boolit Master
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    I have silver soldered a Mauser-style magazine, blind floorplate and trigger guard unit in bronze, for a P14 Enfield converted to .300H&H, and it worked, but as has been suggested, a centrefire rifle, with the lips built into the receiver rails, is the easy end of the magazine business.

    A straight clip magazine for a pistol or .22 shouldn't be too difficult if you start from an internal steel former with its top curved to match the curvature of the cartridge. In many cases the front is rounded, and only the rear will require a 90 degree angle. That would allow you to have the join held together firmly for silver soldering (which would be my preferred method of assembly.) If length of magazine well isn't too tight, you could use a cartridge-width strip soldered between those two sides of the magazine.

    Of course if a firearm is malfunctioning because of the magazine, it is almost certain to be either the lips or the spring. It takes a long, long time for brass to wear steel, so the same kind of former could still be used to tap slightly bent lips out of shape.

    I think you could have problems bending music wire sufficiently accurately, if it is thick enough to reliably raise the column of cartridges in the brief time available. It might be as well to make the spring with annealed wire, then harden and temper it. A small kiln would be best for hardening, and tempering all of its length without softening it too much will be difficult. I would be inclined to do it in a bath of hot lead-tin solder or melted mineral salts. You can now buy cheap Chinese non-contact infra-red thermometers which will tell you the temperature of the tempering bath.

    One of these days eBay will turn up a spare magazine for my Brno .22 with the arsenal stamp for 1968. At $57 from Numrich I am not quite one of those people who don't care about the cost, at least when with current production you get a mere plastic floorplate.

  19. #39
    Boolit Buddy


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    Quote Originally Posted by goodsteel View Post
    The point is, making springs is something that I dreaded for years, but it turns out that its not that hard to do at all, which makes me wonder about this whole magazine issue. Maybe I should just start bending sheet metal and make it happen.
    Exactly. I felt the same way about automatic transmissions. Let me tell ya sheetmetal is cheaper than clutches! I did it. You can too. It may sound funny but there are plenty of good bodywork videos out there too if you are a visual person. There's one who made an aluminum body. No bondo, just a hammer, sandbag, dolly and file.

    I'm not a sheetmetal guy either. In other words, I just haven't practiced enough.
    A gun is a tool, Marian; no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that. - Shane

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  20. #40
    Boolit Grand Master

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    One trick is to first form the body from poster paper The heavier stuff that kids use for projects. Its easy to lay out and cut with a pencil scissors and bend work with. Get the shape right and form the lips on top so they look right. This can be glued to shape with rubber cement. Then mark and cut bottom to shape required for base plate either weld on or slip in. Once this is done you can peel the rubber cement glued joint or cut it center if you want a butt welded joint. You now have the form to use to lay out the sheet metal and get it close. Or if only one is wanted it can be glued right to the sheet metal to cut out. Working in paper card board first shows everything and what order to do things easier and cheaper that the sheet metal. Also if making a solid bottom mag you need holes to assemble it. Push spring down insert a pin thru and drop follower on top hold and release. Making magazines can be a real trial and tribulation at times.

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BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
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