Plastic gas checks?

[Glen]

Has anybody ever played around with plastic gas checks? They could be made oversized and put in place just before the bullet was seated. They would be easy to mass produce (i.e. really cheap), and should seal the gas cloud as better (and maybe better) as the metal GCs we all know and love.

[w30wcf]

Glen,

I have used .06" polyethylene discs under plain based bullets and they worked just like a standard gas check would at 2,000+ f.p.s. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=3474

I never tried them on a bullet meant for a gas check since there is no support for the disc at the edge of the base. Before I semi retired last year, I worked for a plastic injection molding co. and had often thought about a molded plastic check with a .06" thick base with a lip that would fit over the bullet shank. The barrier was $$...... about $4,000 for tooling.

Nice idea though.

Within the next week or so, I am ordering a press mounted punch to allow me to make .312" dia. .06" polyethylene discs/checks in reasonable volume. A lot more testing to do.

w30wcf

[beagle]

Glen...I expect it would work all right. Shouldn't be a chore to make as they make medicine capsules and they're real cheap as I've used them for .38 shot loads before.

The GCs could be made the same way.

I hope somebody picks this up and runs with it as it's a great idea and I'm too busy to fool with it right now./beagle

[felix]

If this works out as expected or even better, I will ask Larry the Gator to make them for us. His gascheck dies are about 600 bucks (per caliber), and quite possibly they can be made cheaper when cutting polyethylene. His dies are carbide, and probably that quality won't be needed for the poly. I am sure the poly sheets cut to his specs would be considerably cheaper than quilding metal. ... felix

[Pilgrim]

They are called "P" wads. NECO first started experimenting with them quite a few years ago. I've used them but generally just use a GC bullet if higher velocities are needed. If necessary, (GC's get too expensive) I'll go back to experimenting with the poly wads. Pilgrim

[Trailblazer]

I think NECO used polyurethane sheet and they used a hole punch turning in a drill press to cut them. It was written up in Precision Shooting magazine.

[Glen]

I'm not thinking about a wafer, cut from flat stock, but rather a plastic cup that would fit over the shank of a GC bullet design, and be held in place by the case neck tension. This would work fine in straight cases, but in bottle-necked cases would be limited to those loads where the GC stays in the neck. They could be made using injection moulding from granular or powdered precursors (i.e. the cheap stuff). I've got queries in to both Hornady and Lyman, we'll see what they say...

[dakotashooter2]

One would think that there is enough "stretch" in the plastic that they could be made to a fit that would be very snug and stay on pretty well and still be pressed on by hand. Or if some mold maker had a mind to they could incorporate a crimp groove in the base of their new molds for a lipped GC to "snap" into. If needed one could probably even develop a tool to "swag" such a crimp groove into bullets from a grooveless mold. Heat resistence shouldn't be a big problem.

[Junior1942]

I think they would work. Plastic sabots sure work well in muzzleloaders. I've used the Hornady green 50 caliber sabots for as much as three firings per sabot. You can keep shooting them until one of the petals breaks or falls off.

[Nrut]

Glen...this has got to be the neatest idea I've seen in a long while...and simple!
You should have patented the idea...still should!

[robhrtsll]

Would it be possible to use a plastic o-ring around the gas check shank. I have seen some made for seals for air pressure and hydraulic couplings. They are square cut o-rings so I think a die to cut some out of plastic sheet would be easy to make.

[arkypete]

Might require a new mold.....but if your mold had a groove in the gas check shank so that your plastic gas check would snap in to groove. I'm thinking of a gas check with a lip. Think of a snap on bottle lid, like the pill bottle prior to child proofing.

Another idea was using an 'O' ring that would fit into the lube grooves. Would depend on the elasticity of the 'O' ring.

Another thought would be a sizer/luber like we currently use that would get warm enough to inject something like polyethilene into the lube grooves, maybe nylon.

Not bad for only having one cup of coffee so far.

Jim

[Bret4207]

I'm thinking glue as opposed to a snap ring type deal. Krazy glue or a hot melt type maybe.

[ace1001]

Wouldn't high heat and pressure of 2000 ft/sec be too much for plastic? Shotguns are low pressure. They could end up as a really dificult residue. Ace

[felix]

Ace, you are correct. But, we have to try stuff to be sure. The important thing is to see how many rounds can we get away with for sought after accuracy and not tackie up the bore so bad it cannot be easily cleaned when the accuracy does go south. ... felix

[357maximum]

Wouldn't high heat and pressure of 2000 ft/sec be too much for plastic? Shotguns are low pressure. They could end up as a really dificult residue. Ace

I have put plastic accellerator loads out the muzzle a 4k+ for many many shots, and had nothing to show for it in the bore....anything is possible.......the open minds here will disprove all wives tales eventually.

Kinda like shooting plainbased boolits a 3k+ cannot be done...teehee


It is nice when those that think it cannot be done get out of the way for the fellas that are doing it...

[nighthunter]

Plastic means different things and is a very large subject area. I do not think that the sabots of today are the same plastic that made the hoola hoop famous. Polymers are more the future and have a lot of benefits that plastic doesn't have. Polymers are not all that more expensive than plastic and I think a polymer product could very easily replace the metal gas check. We have the market .... we need to find a producer.
Nighthunter

[L Ross]

I've been meaning to try hot glue, epoxy, and some other ideas for boolits with bases moulded for checks or perhaps dipping the base into something that would harden and form a seal.

I'm hoping that even it the bottom isn't perfectly flat it will flatten under the same pressures that will obturate a boolit.

L Ross

[Leftoverdj]

I'd be in on such a project, but I'd strongly prefer the plastic GGs be either for PB or dual function. Flat on one side and lipped on the other would be fine. I don't have a lot of hope for success with current GC moulds at the higher pressures because shank length varies so widely that the top of the GC skirt would be unsupported.

[lovedogs]

I'm not sure what the stuff was but several years ago a friend of mine who worked for Dan Wesson and was always sending me stuff to try sent me some sheets of what looked like red wax along with a small supply of .44 cal. 250 Keith-type plain bases. He wanted me to try them and give him my results. It was easy to press the sheets onto the case mouths before seating the bullets and load them up. He claimed they lubed and prevented leading. All I can say is that it worked. I didn't try any of his bullets without the wax to make a comparison, alas. But I'm sure there must be something out there that would work. But I'm afraid it would all be in vain. Haven't you noticed that no matter what someone develops eventually someone gets greedy and the price goes up? So we go to the trouble of developing our wonder substance and it works. We wind up buying new sizer/lubers to apply this stuff, someone gets ahold of the stuff and patents it so they can exploit it and mark it way up to sell it to the public. It's a great idea but I fear it'll go the way of the automobile. Just like we are paying $30,000 for a car that's worth $2,000 we will in short order be paying as much for this new product as we were for regular gas checks. Not to be a wet blanket but... just mark my words. It always happens because people are naturally greedy.