Mihec .22 air rifle bullet mold

[Airweaver]

Hello this is my first post here.
Recently i had a discussion with Mihec for an Airgun bullet..

I provided him some of my own designs and told me that he needs a specific number of interests to cut a mold based on my design.


Usually when someone intend for an exploratory thread about firearm bullets,he give some coded details for the bullet of his preference and a discussion begins about the proposed bullet .

However regarding my case which is airguns there are no "callsigns" except a simply question.

Is there anyone who interests for an airgun bullet mould in order to run a GB?


Below a virtual view of what we are talking about.
.... .22 caliber,about 30grains,ideal for cartridge loading..

[NoZombies]

My understanding of the .22 airguns (never have slugged one though) is that they are designed for a projectile of .220" diameter. If that is the case, the projectiles wouldn't be of significant use to cartridge loaders. That doesn't mean that there wouldn't be interest in an airgun projectile, but knowing what it will and wont do will be important.

Are either of the designs you propose hollow based? I assume the larger diameter band is meant to provide the gas seal?

Tell me more. I'm just the kind of person who will spend $100 on a mold that I'll eventually cast a few hundred projectiles from, even though I could have bought those projectiles for $5, much to my wife's chagrin. I just like making my own, and have been getting larger number of decent powered .22 airguns in the last few years.

[Dschuttig]

Certainly interesting, I would think that you would need a small block with as many caveties as possible to keep it hot enough. Just my 2 cents.

[cody9999]

I'd be interested. How many cavities are you looking at? What mix, (pure lead + 3%)?more info please.

[Lonegun1894]

Where were you with this suggestion before I wiped out the squirrels and other varmints digging up my vegetable garden? Could be a very interesting and useful project, cause I know the varmints will come back through, just a matter of when.

[Airweaver]

In our days most air rifles are extremely accurate but they need pellets instead bullets.
A diabolo pellet is stabilized (prevented from tumbling) by the high air drag on its tail.That means a lower weight due their design in order being aerodynamic and keep the weight in front.
Also When the pellet leaves the muzzle it starts slowing down very rapidly. It will lose more than half its muzzle velocity within the first 100 yards of flight...so it makes sense that always will have a lower BC than a bullet.


In the other side bullets at "airgun planet" have a bad reputation because they have stability issues according the low velocity that most airguns (even FAC) usually suppport.
So if you do shoot solid pellets, remember that they must go faster to stabilize because they don't have the high drag of pellets hollow tail. The spin imparted by the rifling and stabilize them
When i m saying faster i don't mean supersonic.
For example 950fps for an 18gr pellets means 650fps with the same rifle while shooting a 30gr bullet.
If we increase the velocity then we have again 950fps but this time with a better BC and greater muzzle energy as well an accuracy improvement.
Off course you will need a AR 80 or a Talon or even a high tuned rifle for this.

The round nose design it's a clone of Eley wasp magnum and was tested by me since my previous mold damaged(now i need a new one...).

This bullet was very accurate even at 200 yards.
At that distance groups at 4-5" and without wind sometimes 2" always be my best group with my modified Rifle at 995-1050fps.
My design was participated by Mr Gerd Walther who is giving me some useful informations about twist rate of a standard LW,groove & land diameter,and choke tolerance relating air rifle barrels made by his company.
So after many calculations concluded at this design which later justifies my efforts.

About benefits....large band fits firmly at groove diameter and the smaller diameter fits at land diameter of the rifling.


In other words i designed a bullet with no excessive contact on the barrels inward surface....so friction be just enough to keep sealed the area behind the bullet while is travelling inside the barrel.
This factor make bullet to fit exactly as needed in order to avoid leading.

My Talon can push this 30gr bullet at 1240fps which means 50lbs/ft+ at 200 yards according the high BC which is a result of this aerodynamic nose....This is more than enough for hunting purpose especially for an airgun.

To help you imagine the power,many of the modern airguns can product out of the box about 35lbs/ft in front of the barrel and the pellet can penetrate an inch wood easily with this kind of energy.


The key of success is the small diameter on the rear of bullet right behind the large bearing band(enough to self-lubricating and not fit tightly...just 0.02mm larger than barrels land diameter) ,which drive the tail of the bullet and when bullet leave the barrel,first the choke "bite hard"the bearing band to stabilize(a momentary brake ) and the second soft bite(smaller diameter) to give the final control, just to help the bullet go straight in harmony.

The answer about any of your drag concerns about large bearing band,only thing i can say is..i gave a small length at large bearing (1mm)in order to avoid an extremely internal drag.
Imagine what will be happen if a bigger surface exist....maybe a spoon would be required to load,and a lower velocity according the drag.

Offcourse the overall bullet lenght matters and determine the stability factor according barrels twist ratio(17.7 twist ratio in my LW barrel).

I hope that i made clear my conclusions about this style of bullet.

The semi wad-cutter bullet it was based on smaller version on Eley tenex ultimate and its more ideal for live targets purposes.
Unfortunately never test it before because its my new design.

About mold cavities my personal preference is a six-cav brass mold with both of these two different bullet designs on it.
I know some of you complaining about weight.....but for these tiny bullets a 4-cav block from a larger caliber mould may be ideal....Anyway,weight doesn't matters for me..you can put a base under the pot.

However i m sure that there is no problem for Mihec made 2-cav or 4-cav.

I use to mix 49% Clip-on wheel weights,49% stick-on wheel weights and 2% tin.
If there is minimal accuracy problem just use the same mix without stick-on wheel weights....this makes the tail less elastic and fits more stable on the riflings land diameter.....it depends from the barrel configuration and precise size... My RNB it really work like a charm on Lothar Walthers with the 49-49-2 mix.


Dschuttig...you are wrong... read the fourth paragraph here http://www.lasc.us/rangingshot16-9.htm .
Also keep an eye on this http://www.lasc.us/Brennan_6-6-5_Cas...sTwentyTwo.htm...Overall,this is for firearms but generally there are some strict rules of thumb at .22.....although it's not so bad for Airguns which in the most cases you can adjust the velocity by a screw which control the air flow,for much more experimentations until find the sweet spot.
In reality a .22 which weights 50gr is better than a .50 with the same weight but this is not true because it does not exist a .50 with that weight so always there are some advantages and disadvantages and can be zeroed from the monkey who is behind the trigger.

Succinctly for those who it's hard to beleive my RNB's performance,my theory is "you will never know if you don't taste."
Also my opinion is that the future of airguns is the long body bullets especially on popular calibers instead big bore ones....Τhe environment which ι came from confirm this and the only barrier is the approach of a 500fps amount above the transonic speed.

[0verkill]

I'm interested in a 22 pellet mould. Do the designs have a hollow base?

[Airweaver]

Not yet...already working on this with a longer bullet body and in the nearest future if it exists the proportional interest I will try other calibers too.
Right now i m trying to keep weight closely to 30 gr with a length which help cartridge loading so i prefer flat base...For sure accuracy is my first priority for the time being.
Also i must prove something about my design talent..
Not so simple with airguns....You may think they are Guns ..but in fact they are a parallel road instead firearms.....they kill in silent .
However they do have plenty of requirement and they are projectile fussy....SO ...many trials and errors until the result will come.

[Airweaver]

About hollow base i am thinking something like this for big bores. i dont think a bullet like this performs the best on small calibers...lot of weight loss.
http://forum.guns.ru/forum_light_mes...m25655931.html

[greywuuf]

Possibly.interested, let's see where this goes

homeland defense begins at home.

[Cariboo]

I might be interested

[G-Smith]

I would be intrested depend on what the spec on the drawing are.

[NoZombies]

Further reading leads me to believe that when you say "cartridge loading" what you're referring to is loading these into a rotating cylinder as used by a number of higher powered PCP guns, correct?

[Airweaver]

Yep...Thats right.
Take a look carefully at 3:52 on this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iho8yaFvfZY

This is how to load a single shot rifle like the Airforce Condor.
The space between valve and hole where pellet fits is at least 1"....so a bullet with big length can be used.

Same here with a single shot Weihrauch HW 100.
You can noticed again the distance between pellet filling prode and filling hole....



Now...on the picture below you can see a rifle with a narrow round clip(Multishot Magazine) that measures no more than 10mm on width.




How you suppose a 0.500 bullet (overall length)can be loaded inside the breech?

My RNB can be used in both cases..off course you could say ..length affects weight and this bullet is only 30gr and would be interested for something bigger....
..Well i repeat the phrase was reported on my previous posts..."accuracy matters".
Many people and specially the Americans always love "big Things"... Muscle cars,skyscrapers,huge casinos,loud music,rich weddings,red carpet meetings etg...This called megalomania and be addressed from people they believe "Too Much Is Not Enough".
Thats the reason why most of them misunderstood the accuracy for the sake of power.
I bet that a deer can be killed with a tiny bullet from a distance if a shot right behind the ear can be accomplished...but who can do that..OR..who can risk a missing shot?(Remind the story of David and Goliath... .....)
Overall this bullet designed for tackdriver fans and not for blood enthusiastics.

[Airweaver]

G-smith..i hope it should be interesting ..everything works due distribution of weight

[Dschuttig]

"Dschuttig...you are wrong... read the fourth paragraph here http://www.lasc.us/rangingshot16-9.htm"

You didn't have to be so rude about it.

I assumed that you were using a really soft alloy or pure lead, since most airgun bullets that I have used are hollow base and a hard alloy would defeat the purpose behind the hollow base.

While I agree with your cited article, Do you have any idea how long it would take to get a large set of blocks up to temp with just a few cavaties this small? I have a old ideal 225107 that is similiar size and weight to that and it takes freakin FOREVER to get hot enough to cast bullets that aren't wrinkled./ Dan

[Airweaver]

Forgive me if i seem rude to you...i just feel that a question was looking for an answer.
Anyway..i think our problem here is.."a .22 airgun bullet mold be or not to be....."
When we will pass this step and go for a GB,then should be "buy or not to buy"...until then Miha perhaps could suggest something.


Oh...and don't worry about hollow base absence...dimensions do the work.
HB just expands sealing the bullet to the bore,but make bullet very tighty and increase leading while decrease velocity.
....thats the reason why airguners call bullets as solid pellets...From my point of view you have to forget the way that a pellet works(lighter on the tail and large diameter skirts for "drag stability") if you want something that causes "more pain"..A real bullet can be stable only with the right twist...
This happens on air...hot gases are something different and perhaps it deserves more attention at HB's but in few cases.

Do you have any idea how long it would take to get a large set of blocks up to temp with just a few cavaties this small?

Well maybe you are right.Personaly for ingots or mold preheating i use my coal forge....Once i set the fire on it i put a thick metal sheet(about 5-8mm) over the coals ..In a few minutes the sheet became red as hell....just low the fan speed to be steady and maintain the sheet as it is.
After that put the mold on it while an aluminium foil added before at moulds bottom or cover surround the mold with an alu foil..
If you forget it over 10 min maybe it get melts after a delayed coming back.....
Try to search as "Homemade Forge" or "Brake Drum Forge" at Youtube...maybe make your life
easier.

[Airweaver]

Here we go... http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=166188

[^^seabee]

Say i would like to get more info. on this cause i would like to get a mould if they will work in my condor

Thank you

[Airweaver]

Tell me what kind of informations you do need.
I think the description given above are more than enough.
For a Condor with a LW barrel i m sure that RNB works like a charm after a velocity adjustment.
From experience whatever works at LW barrels,work for HW barrels too...not sure for other brands.Also for airguns the polygonal barrels are the best deal for bullets unlike pellets.
I dont really know about the other design(semi wad-cutter) because i did not tested it,but i have the feeling it should work because it is almost the same like RNB...only nose is different for hunting purposes...Maybe a little bit more drag coefficient cause of flat nose but not something particular due intensely acute angle of deviation.