Wano Powder

[John Boy]

the KIK was 2 fps slower than the express.

... and 5 bucks a can cheaper too

Here's another different lot of CTG -

Goex Cartridge – (0542) 07MY04B - May 2004
20 mesh – 98.46% retained
30 mesh – 01.54% retained
Through – Trace

It was my favorite

[Don McDowell]

John I'm like you Cartride was my go to powder, but now that I've found 1.5 KIK I only get into my remaining stock of Cartridge when the KIK is running low. And then I marvel at how much "heavier" the fouling is with the Cartridge.

[John Boy]

And then I marvel at how much "heavier" the fouling is with the Cartridge.

Agree with Don. I don't have any pictures of CTG fouling and what it takes to clean the bore. But here is a picture of the number of cotton balls used to clean the bore of a 38-55 shot with KIK 1.5 & FFg ... 50 times with no cleaning ... 1 water wet and 3 dry

[Don McDowell]

John do you use a smaller than normal jag with those cotton balls? I tried those and had to cut em in two to get them down the bore.
Shooting my patched loads with the KIK 1.5 and grease cookie after a string of 10 or so I just blow 3-4 breaths down the muzzle and couple up the breech and push a patch thru and by the 3rd patch things are pretty shiny inside the barrel. Wiping between shots with the rv antifreeze and water, 1 damp and 1 dry patch and the bore is ready to go even in some pretty hot dry conditions.

[Red River Rick]

2.2 x 20 = 44 lbs in my book. Isn't a kg a kilogram which is 2.2 lbs?

M-Tecs:

You are correct, one kg is 2.2 lbs....................... that works out to $9.09 lb.

RRR

[John Boy]

John do you use a smaller than normal jag with those cotton balls? I tried those and had to cut em in two to get them down the bore.

Don, yes I use a 22 caliber Brown jag ( the bottom one), a 3 piece brass rod with the spiral handle (fits in the range box) and a muzzle guide on the rod or a Delrin rod when cleaning from the breech in 38 caliber for that caliber up to 50-70 with the 22 caliber jag

http://www.eabco.com/gun-cln.html

For brushes, use the correct caliber ones on the 22 cal rod cleaning from the muzzle

I gave up 2 years going to Ridway with a cleaning rod and jags for every caliber rifle I take up there. Now I just use the 22 caliber combo at home, matches, etc. for them all

Read that Harry Pope used cotton balls for patches ...Why Not Me Too! Instead of a container of multiple size patches, one container of balls. Not a container of one size patches and a pair of scissors! Caliber dependent - the key is ...just pull the proper amount of cotton off the ball for loose or tight patches.

Now, here's the best part about cotton balls ... they form a mop on the jag and with a spiral handle rod the mop gets into every corner of the grooves. Impossible using a flannel patch to have it conform exactly within the grooves and dig into the corners like the mop shaped cotton which of course have the fine strands too not a woven fabric

Then , when I ran low on the balls - off to Big Lots or Dollar General for a bag of 200 balls for a princely sum of $1.00! They raised the price though ... now it's 300 for $1.50

Beez Yous Got Balls? Everybody Should!

[Don McDowell]

John thanks much for the explanation.

[M.A.D]

there is no real difference in bringing it too Australia... Its the (edit) imposed once it hits our docks, and the expenses related too the (edit).... All the taxes, fees from the licenses you have to have, etc... Even cheap smokeless powder here is $90 for 2.2lbs.... we are heavily restricted on quantities we can own now... Its just life in Australia... Oh, and not only the handguns, we cant own, Semi Auto rifles or shotguns, Pump action shotguns, certain calibers like 338 Lapua, 375 cheytac, anything 50 is highly restricted, and they are looking at restricting leaver actions due too high magazine capacity...

[plourbag]

John, Thganks for the info. M.A.D. - take a deep breath; unfortunately we're stuck with it!

[cajun shooter]

That's a real shame on what your laws have done to such a large country that has many times the usable land area to use for the shooting sports.
I came into contact with some Aussies during my tour of duty in the sixties, nice bunch of guys.
I guess that there are many people who see pictures of our swamps and think; there is no way I would be there with out a firearm. I feel the same way when I see movies or pictures of the OUTBACK!
I think that if one of your anti-gun law makers was to be put out in the bush and come FTF with a mad Black Mamba, they may change their mind about having a handgun or shotgun.
It's also a shame that persons who have never worked with or used BP have a very misinformed idea about it. They feel if you have it, it's the same as walking around with a bottle of Nitroglycerin . I actually had a fellow SASS shooter ask me where I kept my BP and when I advised him on a shelf in my home, he went crazy. He advised me that I was going to blow up my home and family.
I laughed so hard, I had tears in my eyes. You would think that people would know better after the thousands of years man has used the powder.
I hope things get better for you and if you ever have a chance to purchase some KIK, try it out. Later David

[Saltner]

How is varied over the world!!!
Here in Italy, black powder Wano the hate because it leaves more combustion residues and costs more black powder Swiss.
From here the most used is the Swiss c 'is also the people who use black powder Cheddite that costs less.

[Keith]

Thanks fellas, I love this site. I always get reliable and great info. I'm a bit jealous about the US$7.00 a pound though, here it varies from AUS$55.00 to AUS$75.00 per kilogram (2.2pounds) and I can only obtain it in major cities (I'm over 400km from my nearest source - fortunately he's the AUS$55.00 one!)

Been lurking for a while.
Thought I would jump in. Last price I got for Wano P I use was $A100.00 per Kilo
Keith

[Klaus]

here in Germany the home of Wano Powder it is placed in the middle of the pricechart
we pay between 30 and 50 Euros for one Kilo depending of Granulation.
Kik cost 45 Euros per Kilo and Swiss is on the TOP with 60 - 80 Euros per Kilo

What named Schuetzen in the US called here POW Ex Powder and offered in F..Granulation
The P Grade seems that P > premium grade is the priciest powder.
So far i was informed the PP Grade got the tune up procedure and was more powerful as before.
A lot of BP Frontstuffers here complain this because their recommended Loads with the new PP Grade failed for their siged in Rifles and Handguns.

I personally use the Sporting Powder in F Grades with good success FFFg and Fg at present time

soft fouling and easy to clean
used in 44-40 and 45-70 actually

Klaus

[plourbag]

Well....two years after my original question I think I can answer it myself. Wano powder is good enough for 90% of my shooting both bpcr and front stuffers. I do use Swiss and have to admit it appears to be cleaner burning but the difference in performance where the projectile meets the paper isn't great enough for me to pay the outrageous difference in price. I use Wano for the bpcr and save the Swiss for range comp with a Pedersoli Gibbs. I've also since bought a beautiful little Green River 40 cal rock lock and found that the Swiss makes it much easier to reload when "the next one I load - the last one it cleans", something I never do with the Gibbs.

Thanks for the replies guys. This is definitely the greatest and most informative forum around.

[Klaus]

Well....two years after my original question I think I can answer it myself. Wano powder is good enough for 90% of my shooting both bpcr and front stuffers. I do use Swiss and have to admit it appears to be cleaner burning but the difference in performance where the projectile meets the paper isn't great enough for me to pay the outrageous difference in price. I use Wano for the bpcr and save the Swiss for range comp with a Pedersoli Gibbs. I've also since bought a beautiful little Green River 40 cal rock lock and found that the Swiss makes it much easier to reload when "the next one I load - the last one it cleans", something I never do with the Gibbs.

Thanks for the replies guys. This is definitely the greatest and most informative forum around.

Hello Plourbag,

what kind of Wano Powder is available for you in Down Under ?

We here actually play with the Sporting Powder in FFFg Granulation as i mentioned before

This is the Plasticbox how it was sold here



very good stuff, clean burning ,soft residues and similar to Swiss FFg ( Schweizer 2 ) in velocity but it has not the hard fouling like Swiss.

Klaus

[Keith]

This is what I am using at the moment
In a 45-90 I can get 100 grns of Wano P in the case with around 1200 fps pushing a 570grn boolit.
That's a bit slow even though it is an accurate load. Rules say it must make 1250 fps.
Changed to Swiss No 3 and 90 grns gets me around 1270 with that boolit and 1350 fps with a 530 grainer.
Keith

[Saltner]

This is evidence that confirms what s say around!
Charging with wano 2F than the swiss 2F must be higher than 10% because slightly less lively of Switzerland.
I want to remind likely to smoke American friends that the dust Swiss numbered ambiguous (but I think for the US market have standardized numbering).

No. 1 = FFFFG
No. 2 = FFFG
No. 3 = FFG
No. 4 = 1.5 FG

No. 5 = FG

[Klaus]

hello Keith,
you show two different kinds of powders it`s like a Ferrari and a VW Beetle
The Wano P is a Musket Powder ( or it was on duty in use for Muskets here in Germany) the Swiss No 3 is an exelent and fast burning Powder but much expensive. may you will try the sporting FFFg from Wano next time and tell the results

Klaus

[Keith]

Interesting Klaus.
I understood the P, PP PPP etc to be the Premium grade and more uniform than the sporting F grades.
That's why I chose it over the sporting grade which is also cheaper.
I am willing to be corrected if I am wrong there.

Keith

[Klaus]

Hello Keith,

give it a try

FFFg are a good alternative for Swiss and much cheaper per Kilo

Wano will cost 42 Euros but Swiss costs 86 Euros currently here in Germany
i my opinion that is an argument too

Good Luck

Klaus