FedEx Broken Model 88 Winchester

[Suo Gan]

It's a shame, but holy smoke things happen. Fedex is not ruining guns on purpose. They are a great American company that employs hundreds of thousands of Americans directly, and millions indirectly. It is an amazing company that is excellent in every regard. It is run by people that make mistakes sometimes. What sets this company apart is they offer a good service at a fair price and they do quickly. They get my dad gets his medicine in a day, even on Christmas Eve! Cut them some slack and quit slandering them because you are upset about some old gun. You will get a refund. It is just a gun and not the Dead Sea Scrolls or the Mona Lisa. Get another one and get to shooting. If this kind of thing blows your mind, your life is going to easy and your health is too good. Take this advice and put it into perspective. It could be A LOT worse.

Take care and have fun...you are only here a short while.

[WilliamDahl]

Amen to stock repair. If treated like a piece o furniture, even
old breaks can be repaired with great results. If there's no one in your area to
make the repair, do it yourself.. It takes patience and.care, but the results can be
Very rewarding.

From what I understand, some of the glues these days are so strong that when you repair a piece of wood like this, it will more likely break somewhere else than in the repaired spot.

[TCLouis]

If the company I am buying from even mentions fedup I tell them to find an alternate shipping method or cancel the order, their choice.

[onceabull]

With less than $400 in rifle ,I say a repair or a replacement non -OEM stock is about the only solution that makes economic sense.. One reason for my thinking is that I have turned down more than one offer for more than $400 for the stock on one of my 88's.. Granted those offers were from those "Collectors" you imply contempt for,and my stock is pre-64 Original on a 284 W. model 88.. But someone who has a "spare" Original stock ,either pre or post '64, can easily max out the sale price on one of the auction sites.. Probably 40% of the '88s seen at the 8-12 Gunshows we do annually are in replacement stocks.. Done right I've never seen any practical difference in accuracy level from restocked 88's.. Most are accurately challenged by their triggers... Onceabull

[gitano]

I will continue to look for an original stock OR I will find an "early model" rifle from which I can cannibalize a stock.

In the mean time, my intent is to have the stock repaired. I have found a fellow to do it that has a very good reputation, and having seen some of his work am confident that he can do a professional job.

I will in all likelihood buy a replacement stock from Boyd's, Numrich, or Macon. There's actually considerable work in one of those to make them look like factory. I'll take care of that.

Thanks for your comments, and let me ask that those that are interested keep looking for an "original" stock for me. I'll let you know if I find one before you do.

Thanks,
Paul

[45-70 Chevroner]

Two years ago I bought a Pedersorli Remington rolling block from Cherries Gun shop in North Carolina. I live in Arizona. It was shipped FED-X The box arrived in almost distroyed condition luckely the gun was not broken, it probably would have been broken but Pedersorli makes that rifle in a two piece stock. There was even a note in the shipping box from Pedersorli that they make some of thier stocks in two pieces just for that purpose. I never gave it another thought until reading this thread. Now it all makes sense. I have shipped a lot of reloading stuff through the US mail and by UPS. I will remember to never ship any thing FED-X. We as a group probably won't hurt FED-X by not using them as a shipper but we can satisfy our selves by showing our disdain for them.

[9.3X62AL]

Only one similar event during 12 years as an FFL and 40+ as a hobbyist. Rem 870 Express x 410 arrived inside intact box, stock split at wrist. I replaced the stock with a Wingmaster buttstock, which looked and looks funky in contrast with the Express fore end. Express small gauge wooden elements are out-of-print, it seems.......so either I put up with the mis-match, or order WM fore end wood. The gun shoots wonderfully, and that eases the pain considerably.

Shipping guns--especially long guns--is rolling the bones. I insure the h--l out of them, and usually enclose them in a Gun Guard hard plastic case.

[gitano]

Hard plastic REALLY helps, regardless of which shipper is chosen.

I know that some people don't like to ship long guns in "gun cases" because it notifies EVERY handler that there is a gun in the box, thereby 'inviting' abuse of the package by the 'true believers'. This can of course be mitigated by covering the box with cardboard, but that doesn't preclude x-rays and it adds to cost as OUNCES matter to FedEx and UPS.

On a philosphocal note, why should I have to pay extra for the extra weight caused by the NEED for extra packing to protect against the damage caused by the carrier? It is quite "convenient" that UPS and FedEx are LIGHTENING FAST to blame damage on "improper" packing. Funny how that works. If something I ship gets damaged, the "fix" demanded by the shipper is that I "improve" the packing. What is the result of "improved" packing - increased weight. WHO PAYS for increased weight? - I do. FedEx has no monopoly on this rip-off. ALL shippers do their absolute best to get out of ANY responsibility for damaged shipments.

In my opinion, insurance is ONLY useful for "modern", in-produciton, firearms. There isn't enough insurance to cover the loss of a real 'antique', firearm or other "thing". In addition, NO shipper will pay more than they HAVE to in recompense for a damaged shipment. In other words, you can put $10M of insurance on a pack of gum if you want to, but if they lose or destroy it, they're not going to pay ONE CENT more than "fair market value". Guess who gets to decide what "fair market value" is? If you don't like their "fair market value" assessment you have to sue them. You shouldn't have to guess who pays for your lawyer. "Suing" for anything less than about $10,000 AFTER LEGAL FEES is penny-wise and Pound foolish.

In the end, if "they" - whomever "they" may be - ruin a fine, old firearm, there is next to nothing SATISFYING that can be done about it.

I would be willing to wager BIG money that if legislation were passed that MANDATED that damage or destruction of a firearm would be compensated at TEN TIMES the "fair market value", AND that the "fair market value" was to be determined by a licensed firearms appraiser hired by THE PERSON THAT SHIPPED THE FIREARM, the number of firearms "lost" or damaged by FedEx AND UPS would go to ZERO. The point is: Both UPS and FedEx could prevent damaged firearms if it ACTUALLY hurt THEM to damage one.

Paul

[WilliamDahl]

A company that I used to work at would put the rather expensive and delicate computer hardware that they sold in bags and then fill the box with an expanding closed cell foam. Not a cheap option for those of us who don't ship enough to justify buying the chemicals in 55g drums. I figure that a piece of large diameter sched-40 PVC pipe with the firearm enclosed in a bag and then surrounded with this type of foam should be able to handle anything that Fed-Ex or UPS could throw at it.

[troy_mclure]

I had USPS lOose an encore .22 barrel for me. It was well packaged in a reinforced cardboard tube. The tape at the end cap had been replaced with priority mail tape and sent along with no barrel in it.
Something similar happened with a at bull barrel a fee years ago.
The owner of my range had a box(5) of Boyd's evolution ss stocks smashed to splinters from them too.

All shippers have stuff happen, I've had more trouble getting USPS to make it right than any other.

[3006guns]

I don't trust ANY of them anymore........period. In addition to the usual damaged shipments over the years, I learned my lesson the hard way when the USPS lost an irreplaceable antique lathe part due to a combination of their weak Flat Rate box and my naive packing. I finally aquired a non authentic replacement part for that lathe but brother, never again!

When I ship a firearm, machine parts, old radios, etc. I usually construct a purpose built shipping container/device that would be VERY difficult to damage/lose "accidently" or otherwise. Lengths of PVC pipe with glued on ends, plywood boxes with reinforced corners....all of these have tremendous advantages over the humble cardboard box. Sure, they cost more to ship but they GET THERE. Anything less is taking a chance.

[uncle jed]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CUSTOM-AMERI...item337c0e4962

[uncle jed]

Sorry about the link without any info. My daughter was helping me and did not know I needed to add some to it. It's not a factory stock but it aint bad. So far it is the only one i have found. uncle jed

[gitano]

Thanks, uncle jed. That's the "later" version of inletting. Mine needs the "early" version.

Paul

[mft]

Just had to weigh in on this. For years my family owned a store that had a music section, so we had guitars coming in all the time. If the shipper notified us they were using FEDEX, I'd cringe. I can't tell you how many guitars had to be sent back because of damage in shipping. One guitar in a box came in, and there was a foot print right on the box! I showed the driver, and he just shrugged his shoulders, and said if it's damaged, call the shipper, and out the door he went. Well, I opened it, and as I suspected, the body of the guitar was literally caved in.

First off, UPS has a different truck than most FEDEX Ground trucks. They have the shelving systems, whereas FEDEX have mostly vans or panel trucks. Boxes are simply tossed in and if the driver is looking for a package, I've seen the literally climbing over boxes to get to the one he wants. So if a gun is somewhat angled or leaning up against another box, and in he goes to find another box, it wouldn't take much for a the weight of the driver to snap the stock.

I have a Model 88 I bought used in the late 70's. Haven't shot it in decades, and it's put away for one of my grandsons. I think it's cool when a collector finds one of those "looks like new guns", but mine got dragged through the backwoods of Vermont for years.

BTW: A good woodworker or even a guitar luthier could put that stock back together, and it would hardly show. I did lots of repairs over the years of cracked guitar necks, bodies, etc..., and if done right, they come out beautiful. Good luck!

[3584ELK]

I play around doing gunstock finishing and repairing as a hobby and just finished up fixing a M-88 stock that UPS managed to break into 8 pieces. Got it all glued/epoxied together and with a little touch up of the finish, it doesn't look too bad. About the only thing good about these kind of breaks is they are new and the fresh, clean wood glues really well. The guy hasn't picked it up yet, so here are a couple pictures

Beautifully done, sir!

[rainierrifleco]

i bought a really nice sako stock for big money. really nice fiddle back. usps broke it. shame. i think some of the people there are gun haters and run over gun boxes with a forklift.

[John Taylor]

First off, I'm sorry for your loss. I ship guns almost every day and have had more than a few lost or broken. My experience with USPS has caused me not to use them for anything of value, they lost a Win. 52 sporter and refused to pay for it, said I had to prove it was in the box that they ripped open then delivered with just a few parts in the box. Fed-Ex lost a 50 caliber 1886. Driver said he left it on the porch and when the cops questioned him he gave a description of the porch that did not match any porch on the same street. They paid for the loss. UPS has paid for a few broken stocks but I usually have to threaten them with going to another shipper.
You might try giving Brian Board a call about a stock. He makes lots of stocks for pre 64 model 70s and most likely can make a replacement stock that looks original. 417-667-4884

[TheGrimReaper]

WOW!!! Did the truck is was on fall off a cliff???

[TimeRanger]

Greetings. I am joining this conversation a bit late - I found it while researching a 1956 Mod 88 in .308 that I just acquired.

When it comes to shipping ... I work for one of the carriers listed in this thread. I have had years of experience in dealing with the SHOT Show and its exhibitors. By a WIDE margin, they use Pelican Cases to ship their firearms around the country. Yes, they cost more. Yes, they are heavy. BUT, they are one of the most indestructible cases out there and they are watertight. If you really value your shooters, Please consider investing in one.

When it comes to shipping, trust me when I say that none of the carriers intentionally damages goods. Yes, sometimes they can get careless, but intentional damage? No. Damages just cost too much - in money, time and reputation.

This last June, I had some guns in Michigan that I had to ship home to Vegas. I bought 3, 2-gun Hard cases from Cabela's and had them shipped to my place in Mich. I packed the guns in the cases, zip-tied the cases shut then put the cases back in the boxes that they were delivered in. I used the soft-sided cases that normally hold the guns (and some other materials) as extra padding between the cardboard boxes and the hard cases. I put an extra shipping label (copies) inside of each individual box. I then taped all 3 boxes together and shipped it as a single package - Far cheaper than 3 individual packages. Please note that I used a LOT of tape - clear celo-tape. (Do NOT use duck tape - while you can tape the booster rockets to the side of the Space Shuttle with the stuff, it just does not stick to cardboard.) Never use crumpled paper as packaging material - it compresses to nothing. Clothing or similar items are the same - useless. If you use the styrofoam "peanuts", PACK the box full, shake the box around and PACK in some more. Heavier objects will settle their way down in those peanuts unless Tightly packed.

Damage or loss claims: The carrier is liable to the shipper of record only - If you purchase an item from say.. Bass Pro, and it arrives damaged, the carrier will deal with Bass Pro, not you - Except the carrier may want to examine the package at your location. IF you receive a damaged item, be SURE to keep all packaging materials. I have seen countless claims denied because the receiver discarded the box and/or the internal packing materials. Bottom Line - When you pack an item to ship - gun or ??? - if you are not comfortable dropping the package from waist height, re-pack it. Waist Height because this is the height of the conveyor systems that the carriers use. Also, the package has to be able to travel on any of it's 6 sides. "This End UP" or "Top Load Only" mean absolutely nothing they way they pack those trailers.