Whiterabbits Matchdot test pt1.

[subsonic]

Rabbit has been fighting his BFR for a while and has had some results that lead him to beleive his Matchdot could be done-for.

This is part one of the testing I said I'd do for him.

This is a rifle in this test, but please leave it in this forum as pt2 will be a handgun and this is related to a problem with a handgun....

I have a Savage TR .22lr that drives tacks. It (I?) actually wasn't shooting as well as I know it can today during testing. It has a 10x Super Sniper fixed power scope on it.
I fired a group with the scope at 25yds with one of the best kinds of ammo it likes (that I can afford), Wolf Match Target. It always throws a shot high and left with a cold bore. Can't figure out why, but I rule them out because it will always throw them there with a cold bore.

After firing that group at the top of the diamond (group 1) I pulled the scope and mounted his MatchDot and set the dot size to 4". I wasn't planning on sighting it in, only shooting a group if it was on paper. It was way low on the target below the one I was sighting on, no big deal. This group is group 2 on the target sheet to the left at the top of the page, and might be a hair smaller than the first group I fired with the scope. I then pulled the MatchDot and put the scope back on and fired another group to check that it hadn't lost zero. This is group 3 at the bottom of the diamond.

As you can see, the MatchDot passed this test, (and maybe debunked the myth that you need magnification to shoot small groups up close).

Now part 2 we're going to introduce some recoil.....

[gray wolf]

Nice report, thank you.
I have never had a problem with a red dot shooting small groups up to 50 yards,
They shoot as good as a scope, remember that 4 MOA red dot is about 1 MOA
at 25 yards and about 2 MOA at 50 yards 4 MOA at 100.
I have also noticed that if I adjust the brightness of the dot just right, I can see through it and the black target shows like a shadow under it.
Makes it very easy to keep the dot centered.

[35remington]

The high and left with a cold bore is a lubricant related 22 issue for me rather than a cold bore issue. For me it's the difference in bore condition from the first shot to the second.

Which is why I take a sighter shot immediately before a hunt in the field when using a .22 so the first round doesn't miss. For all subsequent shooting, at least that done on the same day, the shots are in the group.

[subsonic]

The high and left with a cold bore is a lubricant related 22 issue for me rather than a cold bore issue. For me it's the difference in bore condition from the first shot to the second.

Which is why I take a sighter shot immediately before a hunt in the field when using a .22 so the first round doesn't miss. For all subsequent shooting, at least that done on the same day, the shots are in the group.

The rifle only sat for the amount of time it took me to get a soda and switch the scope, and in the lower group #3, you can see the first round did it again. No cleaning between groups or anything. My step son had already fired about 30rds of the same ammo in this rifle less than an hour before I fired these groups. It's not JUST lube. I think it has to do with the TEMP of the lube. His rifle (regular Savage MKII) does it with this ammo as well. My Anschutz 64 also did it with some brands of ammo.

[subsonic]

Nice report, thank you.
I have never had a problem with a red dot shooting small groups up to 50 yards,
They shoot as good as a scope, remember that 4 MOA red dot is about 1 MOA
at 25 yards and about 2 MOA at 50 yards 4 MOA at 100.
I have also noticed that if I adjust the brightness of the dot just right, I can see through it and the black target shows like a shadow under it.
Makes it very easy to keep the dot centered.

I've tried turning it down that low, and it all looks like a swirly fuzzball to my eye. I have to have the dot bright enough to be "sharp" and it has to have some white behind it for me. Red on black makes it hard for my eyes to make out the edges. I think maybe for the same reason that they use red lighting to preserve night vision.

[Whiterabbit]

I'm looking forward to what happens when recoil is introduced. Another member here said he had no issues with 22 either but major issues with even mildly recoiling rifles (he had the benefit of cowitness for proof-positive which I don't have!). It also corroborates what the factory claimed (no problems found) with targets attached with tiny holes.

I definitely want to see what happens when larger holes are used.

[RobsTV]

I'm looking forward to what happens when recoil is introduced. Another member here said he had no issues with 22 either but major issues with even mildly recoiling rifles (he had the benefit of cowitness for proof-positive which I don't have!). It also corroborates what the factory claimed (no problems found) with targets attached with tiny holes.

I definitely want to see what happens when larger holes are used.

That would be me.

Ruger 22/45 MKII worked perfect.
S&W 500 not able to hold zero.
Hi-Point 4095 TS (40 S&W pistol round in a tactical carbine style), not able to hold zero, and easily seen with cowitness stock iron sights.

However, after paying the required $20 to $25 to have the "new" red dot replaced under their lifetime warranty (also original purchaser only, which luckily I was), similar issues still existed. I can not say for certain Red Dot was defective, or at least other things might have contributed.

Sent the 500 back to S&W, where they replaced the frame. Ultra Dot now seems better.

Rail flexed a little on the 4095TS, and also Warne QD rings to rail could never get real tight. Replaced with aluminum rail. Flex was fixed, but "rings to rail" never fully tight. Warne sent me out 2 new sets of rings instantly, but same thing. Gave up on the Ultra Dot with 4095TS, since whole point was to use it on a few weapons with QD rings. Now just use a 4x scope with the same Warne rings and original rail, and it works perfect. For some reason the 4x simmons scope tube works better with that combo than the UD tube. Rings to rail now do tighten with a little room to spare. The 500 had a Warne rail, so ring tightness was never an issue with the 500.

The Ultra Dot warranty service left a lot to be desired, and based on what I experienced, I would not use the Lifetime Ultra Dot warranty as a basis for choosing the UltraDot. (note that they use 3rd party service centers, and seems do not stick with same one for long, so what might have been fine a year ago, might be different today).

[44man]

I use nothing but a fixed dot for my Ultra Dots. I just do not trust anything that changes pictures or dot sizes.
Rings and bases can be a problem too.
The thing to look for with the Match Dot is if it changes POI with a dot size change.

[jh45gun]

I have had no issues with my Bushnell Trophy red dot with keeping zero. I got a Tasco that was on a 12 gauge and no issues there either.

[Whiterabbit]

^^^ would be nice if I could say the same. Would have saved me lots of lead, powder, aggravation, shipping costs, primers, range fees, and more.

[44man]

^^^ would be nice if I could say the same. Would have saved me lots of lead, powder, aggravation, shipping costs, primers, range fees, and more.

Been there, done that! I have broken more stuff then you can imagine. Now on SS, I can not afford what does not work. I have a real fear myself. Just how does one pick a good thing?
Even Ultra Dot does not make everything to stand the horrendous recoil of big bore revolvers. I still pick the simple and the tough.

[35remington]

subsonic, if it throws flyers with only a short cooling time between shots for the first shot all the time......I wouldn't be very happy. That's not a hunting gun for sure. Every shot at squirrels would be high and left.

That would drive me nuts, and I count my blessings that my rifles are not so afflicted.

It certainly would be worth it to find ammo that does not do that, if it is possible. I can't see any of that ammo pictured as being useful, but then I judge everything .22 long rifle related in a "squirrel hunting" equivalent.

Can't help it. It's the limb chicken hunter in me.

[subsonic]

I just dial 6moa up and 3moa left when I hunt. Then I blow their brains out. Some would say I'm waisting the best part....

[44man]

I just dial 6moa up and 3moa left when I hunt. Then I blow their brains out. Some would say I'm waisting the best part....

Yeah. My hunting buddy from Tennessee would get mad when I head shot them.
It is the fear of those prions today that eat your brain but I am so old, who cares?

[35remington]

Yeah, but what happens when you get another shot shortly thereafter, as so often occurs on a hunt? I've shot seven squirrels from one spot without moving, and the last six would have been all misses.

While seven from one spot is my record, it's not uncommon to shoot 2 to 4 of them without moving from one location.

Sorry for the semi-hijack.

[Whiterabbit]

Subsonic,

If you haven't already, it might help to take the matchdot past 25 yards, especially for the big bore test.

[odoh]

Subsonic/Rabbit ~ Is your MatchDot the new all black MatchDot II or the ol' original silver & black one?

I arrived late and may've missed some details

[Whiterabbit]

ol original.

[Old Caster]

I got my Matchdot back today which was right at 6 weeks. It was on a Les Baer 45 with a frame mount so it wasn't subjected to as much recoil as if it were mounted on the slide but it would move all of a sudden maybe 12 inches or so sideways and then group the same place for a while. When moved for the new sight setting it would last 50 rounds or so and then move back. Well, the bottom line is that I have no idea what they did or didn't do to it. I too received a target that looked like it was shot with a rimfire gun and it doesn't say how far but just my name at the bottom and the phrase 10 shot. The dumbest thing of all is that the dot was left on in the number 6 position. I spent about $20 to have not only nothing done but a half dead battery in the process with no explanation. I was initially reluctant to buy a matchdot because I heard so many people had problems but the lack of parallax was the thing that really attracted me to buy two of them for bullseye shooting plus the Tasco Propoint is no longer available like it was years ago. I have recomended the Matchdot because I don't know what else is available but I am taking my recomendation back. Too many are having problems and not getting them fixed, and shooting a failing scope with a 22 long rifle isn't the way to test it. Someone at the range today had a Bushnell red dot and it looked fine and the price was way lower than the Matchdot. I think I will try one and see how it is. The price of the scope was about one third the price of the Matchdot.

[subsonic]

I am planning to test with something bigger than a .22. But I wasn't going to bother testing with a big gun if it failed on a .22. I need an accurate gun to test it on - but I don't want to mess up my current zero on my .475 BFR this close to hunting season (I have other guns I still need to get zeroed and a load worked for for my wife and son) and I haven't dialed in the .500JRH all the way yet to where I can say it is the red-dot or the gun. Give me a week or two....