.358 Win plan. Just right or do I need more?

[Adam10mm]

Currently I'm without a centerfire rifle. I've decided a few years ago I wanted a Remington Model 7 in .358 Winchester. This year I'm going to get going on it. Like any true handloader, I ordered a set of dies before thinking about getting the rifle.

I'll have to find a used rifle in the .308 family, then rebarrel it. Not a big deal. I've got a little Famous Maker brand 2-6x28 scope (only 6.75 in long) I planned to use on it. Something quick-ish in the brush but good for a 200y shot in the hayfield on the farm.

Boolits is where I get stuck. I cast commercially for the .358 180gr WFN-GC for the .357 Magnum. Definitely want to use that bullet and that's why I'm going .358 instead of .308.

I'm looking for a light carbine/rifle for deer and small game. I chose the .358 180 WFN because besides already having the mould, I was thinking it would be an all around boolit for my hunting firearms. Ideally I'd like the aforementioned Model 7 in .358 Winchester plus a Marlin 1984C in .357 Magnum, and a Ruger GP100 in .357 Magnum.

Is my .358 180gr WFN the right choice for all three or something else? The only medium game I hunt is deer.

[ammohead]

Unless you are absolutely married to the idea of a bolt rifle...for a lot less money you should be able to easily find a used marlin in 35 rem. Seems like there should be quite a few in gun stores in your neck of the woods. Using cast boolits there isn't a whole lot that a 358 win will do that a 35 rem won't. Of course you already bought the dies and I have bought rifles because I had the dies already myself so can't fault you for that. Just some food for thought.

[Larry Gibson]

The 35 Rem and the 358 Win are probably the very best of cast bullet cartridges for deer. I suggest getting a 14" or 16" twist and don't skimp on barrel length. The shorter the barrel the harder you need to push a soft cast bullet for a 200 yard effective range, especially with the low BC of that bullet. I prefer the RCBS 35-200-FN in my 35 Rem, a M91 Mauser wittool.h a 26" Shilen barrel. It is a very well balanced rifle and handles easily in dense timber yet is quite capable of 200 yard shots. I push that bullet at 2150 fps cast of COWWs + 2% tin + 50% lead and HP them mildly with the 1/8" Forster tool.

The RD is certainly a capable bullet, just don't short change it with too short of a barrel if you realy want to make those 150 - 200 yard shots on deer.

Larry Gibson

[Adam10mm]

I thought about just getting a Marlin 336 in .35 Remington, but it just doesn't appeal to me like the .358 Winchester does. One benefit of the Winchester is in a brass drought, .308 is cheap and can be easily formed. With the .338-08 being standardized into the .338 Federal, stepping up is easy.

As for action type, I can work a bolt or lever about the same speed for a follow up shot. Had a Tikka M595 Whitetail Hunter SS I could work as fast as my 1895 Guide Gun .45-70. Those are the two rifles I wish I never sold. I'd like to go with a bolt this time. My lever action fix will be served with the 1894C in .357 Mag.

[Adam10mm]

The 35 Rem and the 358 Win are probably the very best of cast bullet cartridges for deer. I suggest getting a 14" or 16" twist and don't skimp on barrel length. The shorter the barrel the harder you need to push a soft cast bullet for a 200 yard effective range, especially with the low BC of that bullet. I prefer the RCBS 35-200-FN in my 35 Rem, a M91 Mauser wittool.h a 26" Shilen barrel. It is a very well balanced rifle and handles easily in dense timber yet is quite capable of 200 yard shots. I push that bullet at 2150 fps cast of COWWs + 2% tin + 50% lead and HP them mildly with the 1/8" Forster tool.

The RD is certainly a capable bullet, just don't short change it with too short of a barrel if you realy want to make those 150 - 200 yard shots on deer.

Larry Gibson

Soft as in softer than copper? My hunting alloy is 9/6/2 foundry alloy at 15 BHN.

I was thinking of keeping the barrel true to the model at 20 inches, but using a medium contour taper instead of the factory lightweight. I mostly hunt the thick cedars that are on the farm, but if a deer is in the field, I want to kill it.

I'm terrible at judging distance on the fly but here's a few pictures from the farm illustrating the longer distances. The farm is 140 acres being 3 40 acre parcels and 2 10 acre parcels.

This is from maybe 20y out from the woods looking at the farmhouse and buildings.


This is the end of the hay field looking back at the farmhouse. The small roof is a deer blind, not the buildings. See the next pic.


This is a shot maybe 50y from the pond looking down the longest field. The pond is in line with the farmhouse, off to the right about 100 yards in this pic. The grey square toward the edge of the grassy horizon is the deer blind in the previous pic.

[runfiverun]

ruger makes the hawkeye in 358 win.
you really would have to work pretty hard on a custom rifle to beat it.
not too heavy,not too light, accurate,good trigger,comes in all weather stock- matte finish stainless,or walnut/blued.
mine dotes on the 250 gr. saeco [sized to 358]
200 yds would be a chip shot on a deer [with any kind of rest of some sort]
i use 48.5 grs of RL-19 as my everyday load.
i can go to 50 grs and hold good accuracy, but the recoil also goes up.
your 180 should work well for hunting with the flat point if things fit well and they feed from the magazine.

[waksupi]

A heavier boolit would stretch your range quite a bit.

[Adam10mm]

ruger makes the hawkeye in 358 win.
you really would have to work pretty hard on a custom rifle to beat it.
not too heavy,not too light, accurate,good trigger,comes in all weather stock- matte finish stainless,or walnut/blued.
mine dotes on the 250 gr. saeco [sized to 358]
200 yds would be a chip shot on a deer [with any kind of rest of some sort]
i use 48.5 grs of RL-19 as my everyday load.
i can go to 50 grs and hold good accuracy, but the recoil also goes up.
your 180 should work well for hunting with the flat point if things fit well and they feed from the magazine.

I didn't see any .358 Win. listed on Ruger's website. Did they make them at one time?

A heavier boolit would stretch your range quite a bit.

Hmm, I'll have to look at what moulds are available for the .358 rifles. You think I should be looking at a 250gr boolit like runfiverun suggests?

[JDL]

I have no trouble getting 2060 fps with RCBS 35-200FN out of my BLR with a 20" barrel. Forty and a half grains of H-4895 is the proper fuel.

You'll not be sorry for choosing the .358 as it's so easy to load for but, as was said the .35 Remington is close.

The .358 is perhaps my favorite cast boolit cartridge for hunting but, this year I will probably be using a new to me 8x57 if I can find a good load utilizing the Karabiner or Maximum boolits.

JDL

[Old Ironsights]

I still want a Savage 99C TD with .243, .308 & .358 barrels...

[MBTcustom]

358 winchester is the ultimate medium range/medium game rifle in my opinion. I have built one on a 7.7 Arisaka action and killed a couple deer with it. I am pleased. I decided that it needs to be improved upon, so I am re-barreling a Sako A5 to 358Winchester. Supreme sweetness.
At the same time, another member here has the same idea for a Model 70 in the same caliber, so I will be doing both rifles at the same time.
If you think its the ultimate cast boolit rifle, you are in good company.

By the way, when you get done with the build, see if you can lay hands upon a Lyman 358-318. That is a phenomenal hunting boolit. It is not accurate at all. It has a round nose. It only has one lube groove. This is why I never used it for hunting until two years ago. I finished the rifle build just in time for opening week of modern gun season, and the 358-318 was the only boolits I had already cast up, so that's what I loaded. Well, like I said, I have killed two deer with this boolit and the results are impressive.
The thing is, that boolit comes out of the barrel like a dying duck, and barely manages a 4" group at 100 yards, however, when it hits a deer, it tumbles every time. This creates a large, oval, exit wound that is easy to track, although, I have watched both deer expire, standing where I shot them from. Put it behind the shoulder, and that deer will start his run hobbling. It is really quite amazing. I'm used to seeing the classic jump and kick when I shoot them there, but with this boolit its like it does the opposite. The deer gets hit and I see a red spray out the opposite side (no exaggeration) and it like he just buckles, and starts fighting gravity immediately. The last deers front legs just refused to work, and he ended up shoving his nose through the leaves for about 10 yards before rolling over and kicking a few times.
After you build your rifle, PM me and I'll send you a few of these boolits to try for yourself. I guarantee you will like that caliber/boolit combination!

[quilbilly]

Any of the 358 diameter cartridges are absolutely wonderful for deer if you can achieve 1100 fps at the maximum range you intend to shoot (terminal velocity) with your 180 gr boolit of softer alloy. For black bear figure terminal velocity to be about 1500 fps. After almost 30 years of blackpowder hunting for deer and elk, I have found hype about higher velocities with big bores to be overblown when it comes to terminal performance. A slow mover in the 358 diameter makes a big hole and dumps a lot of energy on impact.

[skeettx]

Have you thought about using a Remington 722 action, and buying the rifle in 300 Savage because it is cheaper?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=300132154

Perfect for the rebarrel to 358 Win

Mike

[MBTcustom]

Any of the 358 diameter cartridges are absolutely wonderful for deer if you can achieve 1100 fps at the maximum range you intend to shoot (terminal velocity) with your 180 gr boolit of softer alloy. For black bear figure terminal velocity to be about 1500 fps. After almost 30 years of blackpowder hunting for deer and elk, I have found hype about higher velocities with big bores to be overblown when it comes to terminal performance. A slow mover in the 358 diameter makes a big hole and dumps a lot of energy on impact.

Very true, and the 358 winchester is able to sling a 250 grain boolit 2250FPS, so downrange performance is no problem out to 175 yards for sure.

[waksupi]

I've settled on a 265 gr. boolit designed on Mountain Molds site, that Dan cut for me. Very accurate, and I suspect this is probably around the ideal weight for the bore size. I have a point blank range of 225 yards with this, that covers all of my hunting needs.

[MBTcustom]

Ya know Waksupi, wild yarns like that should be kept to a minimum without the accompaniment of pictures!
Speaking of which, here is the 358318:


and a picture of the gorgeous exit wound:

[Adam10mm]

I also have a 358627 mould. The .357 215gr SWC-GC with dual crimp grooves Glenn Fryxell wrote about in his article A Cast Bullet for All Seasons. Might experiment with that one too.

I'll look into some .358 moulds. Might work out that I obtain samples from a few sources to see what looks promising.

[Adam10mm]

Have you thought about using a Remington 722 action, and buying the rifle in 300 Savage because it is cheaper?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=300132154

Perfect for the rebarrel to 358 Win

Mike

I've thought about several actions over the years and am sold on the Remington Model 7.

[waksupi]

Tim, I had a boolit very similar to that design from Mountain Molds, and like you, found stability was not dependable once it was driven past a certain velocity, or if the barrel heated up. I did warn the buyer that it would start to wander past 100 yards. It was plenty accurate to that point, but I did see signs of tipping, which I also warned him about. I suspected either A., that it was under size for my bore, which I knew it wasn't, or B., there is not enough contact surface to keep the boolit sufficiently stabilized for longer range shooting.
By the way, the boolit of which I speak, is almost identical to yours, only with a flat meplate.

[MBTcustom]

I've settled on a 265 gr. boolit designed on Mountain Molds site, that Dan cut for me. Very accurate, and I suspect this is probably around the ideal weight for the bore size. I have a point blank range of 225 yards with this, that covers all of my hunting needs.....the boolit of which I speak, is almost identical to yours, only with a flat meplate.

Wow, that has not been my experience at all with this one. I have put it through its paces any where from 1500 all the way to 2400FPS and it never settled down. Quite frustrating actually if you are trying to punch holes in a piece of paper, but its performance on game has redeemed its value permanently. I just wish I could sling it out to 200 with any manner of confidence that it would hit within 4" of where I was shooting.
Oh well, I will definitely keep working with it because it is my go to hunting boolit. I just tried casting up a bunch of them out of a harder alloy (3.3 Sn/4.5 Sb) which I have never tried. I figure if the boolit turns sideways, it doesn't matter how hard it is.
Have you noticed if that MM boolit will tumble? This one does every time without fail. That's why I like it. Once it hits the critter, its like I hit it with a lead boomerang.