My foray into .38spl black powder loads

[tacklebury]

Lee has one pretty close also:
https://fsreloading.com/lee-mold-d-c...-1r-90328.html

Or 6 cav version
https://fsreloading.com/lee-6-cavity...-1r-90326.html

[Maven]

MasS&W, Your experiment with BP in the .38Spl. prompted me to try something similar in my .357mag. Although I have real BP, I decided to use some Pyrodex P, which I want to get rid of, instead. I used a Lee Precision 1.3cc dipper, which holds somewhere between 15 and 16 grains of Pyro P + a Rem. 5 1/2 small pistol primer (all I have at the moment). The CB is a LBT 180gr. gas checked FP, sized to .359" to fit my Ruger NMBH, and lubed with Felix Lube. As the gun is stainless steel, I anticipate no problems with chlorate residue. Btw, I've used Pyrodex before in both stainless and blued cartridge guns and have experienced no problems with rusting.

All, I just realized I never posted the results of the above experiment. Although I didn't chronograph the 1.3cc charge of Pyro. P with the gas checked 185gr. LBT's, where they impacted the target (higher than my smokeless loads with that CB), tells me they were slower, maybe < 1,000 fps. Accuracy, however, was as good as that obtained with smokeless loads. Although the Ruger was filthy, clean-up with BP solvent (Winchester Sutler's Moose Milk), then a follow up with Hoppes' #9 + lube on the cylinder pin and front and rear surfaces made everything right. Btw, I used no card wads, but the Pyro. P was heavily compressed, and the CB's, lubed with Felix Lube, roll crimped. After the usual washing and drying of the cases, I put them in my tumbler with some ancient Midway USA polish to restore the shine. This exercise entire worked so well that I'm strongly tempted to repeat it.

[Oyeboten]

When I got back into re-Loading a few years ago, I began with .38 Special, and loading it in Black Powder.

All I had on hand was GOEX, 3f, and, Swiss of course would be a better choice, but, the .38 Special in Black Powder, for Revolver in my case, is splendid.

I sed 158 Grain Soft Lead Bullets of .358 diameter.

The Recoil is somehow more impressive and less sharp than with Smokelss, and, the Report is deeper and more impressive.


I use a thin Beeswax 'Wafer' between Powder and Bullet, and, this works splendidly to keep everything clean, and the Bore well Lubed.

End of the day clean up is a snap with plain Hot Soapy Water and a Nylon Bore Brush, dry with Hot Air from a Hair Drier.


Chronograph results showed these to be about on par with Standard 158 Grain RNL off the shelf .38 Special Cartridges in Smokeless.


If I could get as much BP into the Case as they did 114 years ago, or with the old Folded Head cases anyway, and use 'Swiss', the Chrogoraph would likely show the BP rounds to be a little perkier than off the shelf Standard .38 Special of to-day.


Original rating for .38 Special in 1898/1899, when it was a Black Powder Cartridge, if memory serve, was 950 FPS with a 158 Grain RNL Bullet, over ( I think, 21-1/2 Grains of 3F BP )...I assume, from a 6 inch or 6-1/2 inch Barrel.

[boatworks]

How did you make the beeswax wafers? Thanks,Charlie

[StrawHat]

How did you make the beeswax wafers? Thanks,Charlie

Not sure how Charlie did his but I made some by melting beeswax and then pouring it out between two sticks 1/16" thick. The sticks gave me a way of controlling the thickness. When the wax solidified, I was able to cut appropriate discs from the wax sheet. You can do the same with many of the lubes if you want a lube disc.

I have heard about lube/wax extruders but do not have experience with that tool.

[boatworks]

Thanks, I'll try that.
Charlie

[bigted]

for my cookies i just melt n pour lube into a glass pie plate with nuts...[like bolts n nuts]...of the correct thickness so i can fill to just cover them in three or four places in the plate ...then allow to set up . then with the proper cookie cutter i cut to the glass and a side slide frees them from the cake...then i punch them out with a boolit that is shoved up into my kake cutter case thru a enlarged hole thru the primer pocket with a rod to do the pushing with...kinda like a ground screwdriver to a blunt round point.

i have three plates of lube poured in 1/8th inch thick in 1...1/4 inch in another and 3/8ths in another. when i need a cookie i "cut" em out with different cartridge 'cutters' and punch em out with my ground screwdriver.

[boatworks]

Thanks, that makes sense.

[mazo kid]

You can melt bees wax in a shallow pan, then take a plastic bottle filled with cold water, and rotate the bottle horizontally in the bees wax. The wax will form a thin sheet around the bottle and you can peel it off and punch your wads. With a little practice you will be able to get a uniform thickness of wax.

[jrmartin1964]

According to cartridges of The World, it (the .38 Smith & Wesson Special cartridge) was introduced in 1902.

My apologies for resurrecting a thread from more than four years ago, but "Cartridges of the World" (as well as many other publications and periodicals of recent decades) is simply wrong on this. Winchester's catalog No.65 dated April, 1900, and a U.M.C. catalog dated May, 1900, both list .38 S.&W. Special cartridges, loaded with both smokeless and black powders. A Peters Cartridge Cartridge Co. price list, dated April 15, 1901, lists .38 S.& W. Special cartridges loaded with smokeless and semi-smokeless powders. Smith &Wesson's own catalog for 1900 lists their .38 Military (Model 1899) revolver as being chambered for the .38 S.&W. Special cartridge. Further information is found in "U.S. Cartridges and Their Handguns" by Charles R. Suydam, (c)1977, on pages 172 and 173: "The .38 Smith & Wesson Special cartridge was first made by U.M.C. in early 1899; cartridges were sent to Smith & Wesson for trial in May of that year." And "The first smokeless loadings were made in September, 1899,..."


Jim

[Oyeboten]

My apologies for resurrecting a thread from more than four years ago, but "Cartridges of the World" (as well as many other publications and periodicals of recent decades) is simply wrong on this. Winchester's catalog No.65 dated April, 1900, and a U.M.C. catalog dated May, 1900, both list .38 S.&W. Special cartridges, loaded with both smokeless and black powders. A Peters Cartridge Cartridge Co. price list, dated April 15, 1901, lists .38 S.& W. Special cartridges loaded with smokeless and semi-smokeless powders. Smith &Wesson's own catalog for 1900 lists their .38 Military (Model 1899) revolver as being chambered for the .38 S.&W. Special cartridge. Further information is found in "U.S. Cartridges and Their Handguns" by Charles R. Suydam, (c)1977, on pages 172 and 173: "The .38 Smith & Wesson Special cartridge was first made by U.M.C. in early 1899; cartridges were sent to Smith & Wesson for trial in May of that year." And "The first smokeless loadings were made in September, 1899,..."


Jim

Yup...

Designed in 1898, available in 1899...

Debut was with the m1899 S & W "M&P" Revolvers, which also chambered the slightly shorter .38 Long Colt Cartridge.

I got back to a little reLoading a couple months ago, and I found I could get 21.5 Grains of 3F Swiss into any of my ordinary modern .38 Special Cases, merely by compressing it a little more than usual...to end up with a standard 'OAL' with the 158 Grain RNL Bullet.

Have not been to the Range yet to test these rounds but, I will report in with a little Thread about it, once I do.

Test Gun will be an S & W m 1899 in .38 Special.

[johnson1942]

to day i loaded up about 25 38 special cases with this load. 12 grains by weight of blackhorn 209 powder. a cork rubber wad cut from cork rubber gasket material. the bullet is a .370 roundball reduced in diam to .358. that goes on top for the wad and the case is rolled crimped over the end of the ball. very very accurate and very easy and fun to shoot. may seem like a light load but would defend my self with it in a heartbeat. by the way when you use pyrodex in a revolver you had better clean it really good and not let it sit. that stuff will rust ruin anything in real short order.

[Tracy]

That's not black powder. But this is:

[yeahbub]

A very easy and handy way to make lube wad sheets is to use a cookie can which has a flat bottom (no embossing). The bead holding the bottom to the can is often almost 5/16" deep on the outside of those commemorative cookie cans you see at the local Dollar-Mart, but any similar flat-bottom can will do. Turn the empty can upside down on the stove, make sure it's level, put a few chunks of BP-compatible lube on the bottom and turn the heat on very low. Knowing the height of the lip on the bottom of the can, one can guesstimate the thickness and how much to add. Once you've melted a sufficient amount to look thick enough, turn off the heat and let it solidify. To get the sheet of lube to pop loose, put it in the fridge for twenty minutes or so. The sheet will shrink and pull loose from the can, though a small area in the center may still be attached. Moving it to the freezer generally gets it to pop loose the rest of the way. Once loose, put a paper towel over the can bottom and put the sheet on top of it and let it assume room temperature - now you're ready to use case mouths to cut lube wads. The paper towel will keep the cut wad from sticking to the can. This will work with any of the beeswax/tallow/shortening/oil type lube recipes and most of those intended for smokeless use. I use 541, aka Emmert's and all my lube-cookies are made this way.

A note on using lube wads for cleaning: For barrels that are seriously leaded after a match or a long plinking session (commercial "store brand" reloads required at some ranges), 5 or 6 reduced-load "target" rounds with a card wad, generous lube wad, and any ol' correctly sized boolit appropriate for that load has been successful at clearing the lead, leaving only a thin film of powder residue and lube. Reduced load due to diminished internal volume because of the card and lube wad. In .38 Spl, I use 3gr Universal, card wad, lube wad and a Lee 358-158-RF. Much more fun to shoot them "clean" than a long session of scrubbing, patching and brushing to get the lead out.