Load DataInline FabricationTitan ReloadingWideners
Lee PrecisionRotoMetals2Reloading EverythingRepackbox
MidSouth Shooters Supply
Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Blueing Question

  1. #1
    Boolit Grand Master


    GregLaROCHE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Southern France by way of Interior Bush Alaska
    Posts
    5,286

    Blueing Question

    A couple of years ago I came across a good deal on a Hawkin type muzzle loader made in Spain. It’s in really good shape, but a portion of the blueing is gone. Maybe 25%. It’s not at all pitted, just white. Now that I am thinking about shooting it, I thought I would do something to touch it up.

    My question is, if I attempt to touch it up with cold blue, should I do it up to the line of good blueing or overlap it some. Probably it’s best to remove all the blueing and cold blue everything, but I don’t want to get into a bigger project until I decide how well I like this gun.

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master

    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Northwest Ohio
    Posts
    14,454
    Why not shoot it as is first then if it performs and you like it give it the tlc to the level you want. his allows or tuning and adjusting with out worry of damaging the new finish also. This is how I would do it and then if its a keeper I would srip polish and refinish all the metal and wood.

    If this is going to be a hunting gun you might consider one of the bake on finishes for durability. Its much easier to get an even finish doing the whole barrel than patching.

  3. #3
    Moderator


    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Way up in the Cascades
    Posts
    8,073
    Sound advice from the Gent. Problem with cold bluing is that you'll usually get discoloration where the cold blue meets the hot blue. Could be brownish, or maybe even kind of rainbow like oil on water. This is because cold blues are usually acid based and hot blue is alkali and the two don't mix. I have 3 Hawken-type rifles, and really, in looking at them, there are few blued parts, mainly just the barrel. Of course they all aren't like mine, I realize, but mine have brass butt plates, patch boxes, trigger guards, and case hardened locks. So, basically just the barrel. With some preparation you could probably redo the barrel with Oxpho Blue. Alternatively, given access to a stove with a good burner and large oven you could brown it, which is probably more authentic than a blue. Also, as mentioned in the preceding post, bake on (need the oven again) or spray on finishes can prove attractive to some folks, and they are durable. I have to confess to being partial to a blue gun, myself.

    DG

  4. #4
    Boolit Master

    FLINTNFIRE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Longview, Washington
    Posts
    1,654
    Why not take a couple days and rust blue it , it really is a nice blue . Never had luck with cold wipe on blues for touch up .

    I do not consider it a very big project , cleaning the old blue off and then degreasing and on with the rusting solution and then I give it a tea kettle steaming and hang till its time to do it again .

    Rust and blue from reading the muzzle loader and building the kentucky rifle books were all finish that was used , I think the in the white were probably let patina on there own if not blued or browned .

  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master


    GregLaROCHE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Southern France by way of Interior Bush Alaska
    Posts
    5,286
    Country Gent is probably right to shoot it as is. That’s what I was planning to do, but after taking it down off the wall, where it was for two years, it looked pretty bad. I took off the barrel and cleaned it up with a carding wheel today. It looks a lot better now. The rest of the metal parts have a case hardened finish or are brass. They are in good condition. I’ve always wanted to try my hand at hot blueing. Maybe this will be the time, if I like the way it shoots. It will only be used by me for target shooting. Its .45cal.
    Thanks for the input.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master Shawlerbrook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Central NY
    Posts
    2,915
    Great advice above. Definitely not cold blue. Think about something like Cerakote or Brownells Aluma-HydeII.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master


    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    NH
    Posts
    3,783
    Brownells Oxpho-Blue
    https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...1072-3869.aspx

    It is not the typical cold blue

  8. #8
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    761
    you might want to consider what I did with one of my sons rifles did a Parkerizing on it.

  9. #9
    Moderator
    Texas by God's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    14,333
    If it turns out to be a shooter; consider browning it. IMO blued muzzleloaders just don't look quite right. Browning isn't hard to do at all. Birchwood Casey's Plum Brown is what I've used- but I don't know if it's available in France.

    Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

  10. #10
    Moderator Emeritus / Trusted loob groove dealer

    waksupi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Somers, Montana, a quaint little drinking village,with a severe hunting and fishing problem.
    Posts
    19,340
    Quote Originally Posted by Texas by God View Post
    If it turns out to be a shooter; consider browning it. IMO blued muzzleloaders just don't look quite right. Browning isn't hard to do at all. Birchwood Casey's Plum Brown is what I've used- but I don't know if it's available in France.

    Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk
    Actually, early muzzle loaders were pretty much all blued. Browning didn't come around in general use until around 1800.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  11. #11
    Boolit Bub
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    74
    Greg,
    I use to run tanks of Oxynate#7 and if you like the colors they produce they are real hard to beat - but unless you have a few to do, what a PITA. From there I moved on to a damp cabinet and rust bluing, now that's even a bigger pain, especially if you do the fuming on top of it to make finishes durable... In the past 4 years I've changed things up a bit and for the effort to results ratio, Mark Lee's bluing and browning solutions have been un-paralleled. Start by following the instructions to the letter but you'll find depending on a few things like altitude and tap water sources there are some short cuts you can take. With not much more than a piece of 3" diameter PVC a little longer than than your longest barreled action, a porcelain canning pot, hot plate or stove, some steel wool and acetone - a high quality bluing job happens in less than a couple of hours, doing a plumb brown job takes a little more effort in my case -but I made one turn out .
    Greg

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
    Bent Ramrod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Southern Arizona
    Posts
    4,284
    I’ve used the Brownell’s liquid and also the Birchwood Casey (I think) paste. Neither of them actually blues the steel by oxidation, IIRC, they precipitate a selenium compound on the surface of the metal that looks blue-black.

    This will work, or not, as a touching-up, depending on your level of determination. What I do is get a can of CRC chlorinated QD electrical contact cleaner, and degrease a piece of 0000 steel wool and the surface on the gun I want to touch up. I haven’t had equal success with acetone; the technical grade mostly available has some impurity in it that leaves a film. Reagent grade ought to work, if you can get some.

    Once degreased, I daub the bluing solution onto the metal with a Q-tip and rub it in with the steel wool, let it dry, and polish off the excess with light swipes using a paper towel. Then I daub some more of the bluing on and rub with the same piece of steel wool, let dry, and lightly polish again. I repeat until the coating doesn’t seem to be getting any darker, then wipe down with the paper towel and some Marvel Mystery Oil.

    There will be (perhaps) a little inconsistency in the color match on the part that spills over the border into what’s left of the real bluing, but this is much less noticeable than the shine from the original holster wear or whatever.

    I was taught this by a lady at the gun club who had done a whole single shot shotgun barrel in this manner, using up most of a tube of bluing paste in the process. Her fingers were probably blue for a week, but the color was very dark and very uniform, and none of it had worn off again, as far as I could see. Previous to that, I hadn’t bothered much with the touch-up blues, for all the reasons already mentioned by the posters, but since, I’ve done a lot of small items like sights, and worn spots on larger parts in this manner.

  13. #13
    Moderator

    W.R.Buchanan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ojai CA
    Posts
    9,872
    I have had some good luck with Birchwood Casey Super Blue I have used it on many small parts but wouldn't hesitate to touch up a barrel with it since I just did it to my Monkeyberg barrel where there was a scuff mark on it. Its is NOT perfect but it looks alot better than it did and it's not like you can't go back over it later, or get the whole barrel reblued.

    For an investment of $10 you can't really go wrong and you can't screw it up beyond simple repair if it doesn't work out the way you thought it would. Matching any bluing is a crap shoot, and everyone here should know that.

    BC also makes a really good Blue Remover if you need to start over. Or you could use it first and do the job right. that way there wouldn't eb any problems with matching the color as it would all be the same.

    The only way to make it perfect is to have it professionally Blued. However that gun should probably be Browned anyway? A nice Plum Brown is a very attractive finish, and you can do that with another Birchwood Casey product,,, as well as remove the old blue before you start.

    They make all kinds of neato stuff and you can get surprisingly good results if you read their instructions.

    Something to look at.

    Randy
    Last edited by W.R.Buchanan; 10-30-2021 at 07:00 PM.
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

  14. #14
    Boolit Master

    FLINTNFIRE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Longview, Washington
    Posts
    1,654
    I have plum browned , cold blued , and rust browned and rust blued , and will rust and brown or blue from here on out it is not that hard and can be done a lot easier and with minimal time if you do it for the climate and circumstances you live in .

  15. #15
    Boolit Master Rapier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2020
    Location
    NW Florida
    Posts
    1,449
    Cerakote makes an air cure version of their product. Applying it is a process in and of itself. I have done several dozen guns with it, has a learning curve.
    “There is a remedy for all things, save death.“
    Cervantes

    “Never give up, never quit.”
    Robert Rogers
    Roger’s Rangers

    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.
    Will Rogers

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check