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Thread: Bad Powder pictures

  1. #21
    Boolit Master




    Cherokee's Avatar
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    Now I've got to check my stock of milsurp 4895......Never seem anything like that before in 50 years of reloading.

    Edit: 4895 looked and smelled fine.
    God Bless America
    US Army, NRA Endowment, TSRA Life
    SASS, Ruger & Marlin accumulator

  2. #22
    Boolit Master Rocky Raab's Avatar
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    By the way, single-base extruded powders are the ones most likely to go bad this way. It's the result of residual acids, they think.

    Double-base powders are much less likely and no spherical powder has ever been known to go bad. (Poor storage conditions could change this, of course.)

  3. #23
    Boolit Master 243winxb's Avatar
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    Click photo for larger & some Info-IMR4895

    [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG] Dupont IMR 4895 The Manufacture of Smokeless Powders and their
    Forensic Analysis: A Brief Review
    http://firearmsid.com/Feature%20Arti...wder/index.htm These photos & more albums at > http://www.photobucket.com/joe1944usa
    Last edited by 243winxb; 09-29-2012 at 12:30 PM. Reason: added link in blue & Album photo link.

  4. #24
    Boolit Master

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    Wow, that's pretty bad. I've only had the bad surplus 4895, some dusty 4064 that I threw out, and some WWII surplus 4831 that was really on the edge so I dumped it too.

    My experience with powder starting to go bad is that it "lost power" and smelled bad when shot. I tried working up a load with the 4831 and got erratic and low velocity over the chronograph.

    I was at an estate sale last year, bought some old loading gear and the guy asked if I was interested in some old powder. He pulled three old brown bottles out of a drawer, labeled in sharpy but I forget the powder. I was immediately uninterested but opened them to look out of curiosity. The first one was clearly two powders mixed. The next one hissed and let out a brown gas when opened. I didn't open the third one. I told him he really should dump them out on the lawn so someone didn't get hurt. He agreed with me when he saw the toxic-smelling brown gas seeping from the one bottle.

    It is weird how some goes bad while some seems to last forever. I have some other WWII era powder that still seems fine as I slowly use it up. I guess it's all in how it was made, and how it was stored. The surplus 4895 I had that went bad had been stored in an attic before I got it.

  5. #25
    Hmmm Ive got some blue dot and bullseye in the same canisters as the RE 7 that duchman posted. Some of my grandfathers stuff he gave me. Guess I should load and shoot it before it has a chance to go bad. He was an employee at the Hercules plant in Hattisburg MS, guess he could probably get a good deal on the stuff.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master mdevlin53's Avatar
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    Today i found some bad powder in a new box of cartridges. I was at the range and got a squib on a new round of 7.7 Jap. had to dislodge the bullet rom the barrel. When i dumped out the remaing powder from the case a large lump fell out on the ground. Two shots later it happened again but this time i saved the powder. Stopped shooting the gun and packed up the box of cartridges. I called the fellow who sold me this box and cautioned him to take these off the shelf
    ,
    Why Johnny Ringo you look like someone just walked over your grave.

  7. #27
    Boolit Master
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    mdevlin53

    were those factory loads or commercial reloads?

  8. #28
    Boolit Master mdevlin53's Avatar
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    How would i check that i know they were shiney new looking. The primers were not crimped and the jackets on the bullets looked like they were made yesterday
    Why Johnny Ringo you look like someone just walked over your grave.

  9. #29
    Boolit Master
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    I can see that the box says new ammunition, but If reloaded I would think that it should have some kind of disclosure statement. I have never seen that brand before.

  10. #30
    Boolit Master mdevlin53's Avatar
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    norma brass is 27 bucks from midway so i took a shot with the cost of this at 24 and change i figured it would be worth it for the brass alone. When i unload the unfired cases i will send in a picture of the powder i remove.
    Why Johnny Ringo you look like someone just walked over your grave.

  11. #31
    Boolit Bub Gisli's Avatar
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    This is very strange. Could it be that high temperature is spoiling the powder ? I am using Hodgdon H-335, that I bought around 1980 and Herco from ca 1976. Nothing wrong with them.

  12. #32
    Boolit Master
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    Gisli

    I have some HS6 that has a price tag of $3.59 on it and an 8 lb container of Herco from 1977, stored in the same conditions, and both are still good. I am pretty sure that being stored in climate controlled conditions wouldn't have hurt it any though.

  13. #33
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    I have a pound of H-450 that I bought 20 years ago? its a metal can, yellow and black and cost $8.50. years ago I was loading 30/06 and tried this powder, didnt get a clean burn, BIG spherical lumps, not balls, odd shaped lumps. so I leave it there with other forgotten powders, and now the odd shaped balls that are lumps are all cracked into flakes, odd shaped flakes, smells ok, but looks alot different, I guess it will go to the garden, also found a old H-110 metal can lid metal, but it was red and smelled bad burned my eyes, torched a nice line for the kids,but I have W231 that is 30? years old and still a sgood as the day I bought the 8 pound keg.
    just starting cleaning area after 33 years, oh I cleaned but just lost track of stuff I collected

  14. #34
    Boolit Master on Heavens Range
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    231 has 25-30 percent nitroglycerin, a strong preservative, and assumes no solvents are remaining after washing them out (chemically). Solvents, above a certain threshold, in ANY powder will make the final powder deteriorate much faster than normal. This was shown in a picture above having two single base powders side by side approximately the same age. One good, one bad. ... felix

    Older RL7 had only approx 5 percent nitroglycerin, instead of the approx 10 percent within the latest lots. ... felix
    Last edited by felix; 09-10-2012 at 06:56 PM.
    felix

  15. #35
    Boolit Master
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    Re: Sulfur Smell

    I thought Sulfuric Acid was only used in very small quantities to absorb water from the Nitric acid used to process the cellulose or glycerin.
    Last edited by Mal Paso; 09-15-2012 at 09:47 PM.
    Mal

    Mal Paso means Bad Pass, just so you know.

  16. #36
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by williamwaco View Post
    Those evil brown fumes were Nitro Glycerine.
    The liquid is quite likely the same.


    You need to dispose of that VERY CAREFULLY.



    .
    If it was 4895, no it wasn't, H4895/surplus 4895 was a single base powder, and that single base was nitrocellulose.

    HF

  17. #37
    Boolit Bub dickttx's Avatar
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    Interesting topic. I have about 20 cans of powder I bought in the late 60's and early 70's. Over that 40 year period it has been stored in non controlled temps ranging from -20 to probably 150 degrees. A few of the square metal cans with the pop top have rusted thru the tops and a few others a sour smell. Others seem to be OK. I have a 4# cardboard container of Unique that had bee opened those many years ago but very little used from it. I loaded some 41 Mag rounds from it a couple of years ago, and could not tell any difference between it and some new Unique.

  18. #38
    Boolit Buddy
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    I just tossed some Imr4895 last year that was up in the 20-25yr old range, and some Imr4831. Both were a pale grey and left red dust on a glass measuring cup. My nose is terrible, so the smell was not something I could tell much difference in, from any other powders I had.
    It didn't look as bad as the pics above though. Other powders I have that are older, were fine

  19. #39
    Boolit Master

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    Bad powder- the gift that keeps on giving.

    I had some surplus 4895 go bad years ago. For a long time I would find the occasional ammo I had loaded with it before I realized what was going on. I thought it was all gone, until today.



  20. #40
    Boolit Mold
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    Wow, I feel fortunate. I have stored an old can of Winchester 748 for over 30 years and just used it to load up some .223's. it looked and smelled great

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check