Cruise Missile load for M91 Carcano

[ukrifleman]

I have been working up a load for my 6.5mm M91 Carcano using the 170gn, .270 diameter `Cruise Missle`mould from Midsouth Shooters Supply.
My initial attempts to get accuracy were to say the least, not encouraging.

The bullet gas checked to .268 and various charges of 5744 were totally inaccurate with every bullet key-holing.

I reduced the bullet weight to 150gns by removing the lower driving band with no better results.

I then switched to GM3 powder and the load was transformed (see pics). The cut down bullet gas checked as cast, has proved to work better than the full sized bullet.

Still some fine tuning to do, but the latest 150gn load looks very promising.

The load with the 170gn bullet still has some way to go, but judging by todays results at the range, there is every reason to suppose that it can be considerably improved.

ukrifleman

[JeffinNZ]

The CM, sized .269, in my Carcano shoots really well. 2 MOA when I do my bit. Holes are always oval but the wallabies I shot on the last hunting trip don't seem to notice.

[dromia]

Have you taken a throat/lead/bore/groove slug so that you know what size boolit your rifle needs?

Sounds as though your boolits are undersized if they are keyholeing.

GM3 is a faster powder than 5477 so could be bumping up the boolit hence the better results.

Boolit fit is key.

Also have you got every bit of copper fouling out of the bore?

[ukrifleman]

The throat has some erosion and slugs at .271(no doubt do to the use of Ballestite) and the rest of the bore slugs at Grooves.2685/Lands.255
The bore is as copper free as I can make it with ongoing, copius treatments of Hoppes No.9.

I agree that your observation on bullet fit is probably spot on, but right now, I am more than happy with results using GM3.

I have a shooting buddy who is going down the same route as me with his M91,using the same bullet. His findings mirror mine in that his loads didn't start to come together until he switched from 2400 to Unique.

ukrifleman.

[dromia]

What are the Boolits dropping from the mould at?

If they are 0.270" it would be worth trying them unsized or if they are dropping smaller then beagling the mould would help.

[ukrifleman]

The bullets dropped at .2695 and I loaded them as cast, with the gas checks fixed with loc-tite.

ukrifleman.

[dromia]

I'd be minded to cast a few from a Beagled mould and try them just to see what happens.

[ukrifleman]

I'd be minded to cast a few from a Beagled mould and try them just to see what happens.

That might well be what happens if I don't get the results I am looking for, I am fortunate in having 2 Cruise Missile moulds; I had it in mind to keep one as is and reduce the other to 150gn.

So far, I have been cutting the bullets down with a junior hacksaw, which to say the least is tedious!

ukrifleman.

[Boz330]

What US powder would GM3 be equivalent to. My carbine has driven me crazy trying to get a load that will go less than 4 MOA. It seems that the slower I push it the better it gets but I'm way below any listed load.
Like Jeff any load produces oval holes and some are down right sideways. I cut the CM mold down as well. I got so frustrated with it that I haven't touched it in quite some time. I don't even remember what the cut down weight is.`

Bob

[Donor8x56r]

Not a CM load but it might help:

140Gr NOE WW/soft range find lead, air cooled boolit (drops .271 and lubed with .271 sizer)
Win primers,partialy sized PPU case and 11.3 Gr of 2400.OAL 2.925 I think...

Above load seems to be doing the trick in my rifle.One thing limiting development/accuracy is front sight-I could use taller one.

[ukrifleman]

What US powder would GM3 be equivalent to. My carbine has driven me crazy trying to get a load that will go less than 4 MOA. It seems that the slower I push it the better it gets but I'm way below any listed load.
Like Jeff any load produces oval holes and some are down right sideways. I cut the CM mold down as well. I got so frustrated with it that I haven't touched it in quite some time. I don't even remember what the cut down weight is.`

Bob

Hi Bob,

The nearest U.S powder to GM3 would probably be Unique although not identicle, so be carefull when working up loads with it.
I can't give you any load data for Unique as I have never used it, but I believe GM3 is now being produced by Nobel and is marketed under the Vectan Brand; I know SOME Vectan powders are available your side of the pond, but can't say if GM3 is.

Contrary to popular myth, the M91 Carcano is a well made, accurate rifle with a strong action, its bad press came from under-sized bullets being used (.264) in a .268 bore and the fact so many M91 rifles were `sporterised`by having the barrels shortened. Doing this to a bore with gain-twist rifleing is a sure-fire way of destroying accuracy.

ukrifleman.

[JeffinNZ]

Contrary to popular myth, the M91 Carcano is a well made, accurate rifle with a strong action, its bad press came from under-sized bullets being used (.264) in a .268 bore and the fact so many M91 rifles were `sporterised`by having the barrels shortened. Doing this to a bore with gain-twist rifleing is a sure-fire way of destroying accuracy.
ukrifleman.

Is your Carcano one of the Parker Hale conversions? Mine is. A FAT41 cut down with a PH front sight. Nothing wrong with the Carcano. Gets a bad rap for no good reason IMHO.

[gerrycan]

Not a CM load but it might help:

140Gr NOE WW/soft range find lead, air cooled boolit (drops .271 and lubed with .271 sizer)
Win primers,partialy sized PPU case and 11.3 Gr of 2400.OAL 2.925 I think...

Above load seems to be doing the trick in my rifle.One thing limiting development/accuracy is front sight-I could use taller one.

HI,
I wonder what speed you are getting ? Gerry.

[ukrifleman]

No, mine is a 1918 built M91 in original configeration. (See pics)

ukrifleman

[JeffinNZ]

OMG. That's beautiful.

[Uncle Grinch]

Wow!! That's one of the nicest miltary Carcano's I've ever seen. It looks new.
Did you re-do it or is it original?

[Boz330]

OMG. That's beautiful.

My thoughts precisely, WOW!

Bob

[PAT303]

Nothing wrong with that. Pat

[Haggway]

I thought the bad rep of this rifle was never fired dropped once in surrender. Thats what the old timers used to say.

[ukrifleman]

Thanks for the kind words guys. I bought the rifle from a dealer buddy of mine, who rescued it from a fate worse the death(de-activation!) He originally bought the rifle because of the good condition of the stock; the blue is not original but was done by him.

The rifle was made in 1918, but the stock is of 1940's manufacture, so I guess the G.I. who brought it back from Italy, must have found an un-issued stock and took it.

The rifle had been duffle cut, but all in all it has turned out a fine looking example of an M91.

I am a shooter not collector, and I am just pleased to own this rifle, in spite of it not being all original.

ukrifleman.