sight angles

[bigted]

so just came to a realization. had to drill out my MVA sharps vernier to get a hole for an ol man to see thru and havnt blackened it yet but.......when peering thru it i got a glare from the bright unfinished metal so i started to look at the why of it all...this isnt the first time ive had to drill a peep out to see thru it.

discovered that the sight staff is leaned back toward my face pretty far so i took a straight edge and held it along the barrel and protruding back to the staff and discovered that the staff on this sharps vernier is not square with the bore/barrel. now looking at my other rifles that i have wrist mounted sights on...the sharps are both leaned back in such fasion. i also have a c-sharps sight and it also leans back away from being plumb with the barrel/bore.

was wondering why this is so? doesnt make sense to me to them not being square with the barrel so does anyone know why this is and what the reasson is for it?

[Dan Cash]

Your sight leans rearward because the indexing spring is too far forward. Look at your sight base and identify the screw that holds the spring in position. Loosen that screw and move your sight staff to the desired position then tighten the screw. Because the large elevation changes necessary for shooting at long (800 to 1000+ yards, the staff, which was presumably perendicular to the line of sight when shooting at close range is no longer perpendicular when elevated to the 180 to 200+ minutes necessary for the long range shots.

[bigted]

Dan...you r absolutly rite with the MVA. loosened the spring screw and adjusted it as you say and re-snug the spring screw...walla the staff is adjusted to be in the rite place/angle when in the firing detent.

thanks sir...now guess ill just have to figure out the marples tangs for my winchesters.

[Don McDowell]

On that C Sharps sight you'll have to file the indexing notch out tiny bits at a time to get it to stand up where you want it.
Perpendicular to the bore is probably not as important as you being able to see squarely thru the aperature even at the highest elevation settings.

[montana_charlie]

Dan...you r absolutly rite with the MVA. loosened the spring screw and adjusted it as you say and re-snug the spring screw...walla the staff is adjusted to be in the rite place/angle when in the firing detent.

Did no instructions come with that sight?

CM

[bigted]

oh ya...instructions are someplace...manly men dont read em do they?

Don...im not particularly happy with the c-sharp sight. it is weaker and not as stable in the staff with the screw adjuster like the mva i bought. prolly just shoot it on the hunter hiwall where ill set the sight and after getting a load it will probably never move after that. the sight picture is what i was going for as i couldnt see the whole hole thru without adjusting the mva...in my opinion the mva is a better sight then the c-sharps sight...but thats just my humble opinion.

i like the marples wrist sight with the incert out of them. gives me that ghost like ring for really fast shooting in brush. the 45-120 will probably get one on it for just that reasson. speaking of the 120...that hummer is just the ticket for my lube cookie loads and still has room for a ton of powder...hope i can afford to feed the hungry thing!!

[montana_charlie]

oh ya...instructions are someplace...manly men dont read em do they?

If a manly man had a new sight and no internet, would he just 'do it wrong' forever?

You had already figured out that your aperture didn't look straight at your front sight.

Without the (internet) information about the spring adjustment, I suspect your next 'manly man move' may have been to get your trusty drill ... and change the angle of the hole in your eyepiece.

Oops! I hope I didn't just turn on a new light bulb for you ...

CM

[bigted]

Charlie...were you per chance a school teacher? i got over being 'shamed' into stuff a long time ago. seems like i dont know how to take you sometimes with your sharp tounged remarks. still consider you a friend but .......sometimes brother!!

my request was for ALL wrist mounted sights and not just the MVA sight. seems like the angle is "wrong" on all for me and i dont seem to get a full round hole as i look thru a 'bent' sight that is off the plane that is required for being able to see thru a nice round hole.

the old action mounted peeps like the williams or marples never had these issues as they were and are bored with a hole that is straight with the barrel bore.

just seems funny that a higher dollar sight would be so outta line and require filing to justify the correct angle is all...seems like they are close but who wants close when spending their hard earned bucks

[montana_charlie]

Charlie...i dont know how to take you sometimes with your sharp tounged remarks. still consider you a friend but .......sometimes brother!!

My favorite kind of humor is dry and (sometimes) cynical. If you ever wonder if I am kidding you or insulting you, keep this in mind.

If I intend for you to feel insulted, there will be no doubt in your mind.

On the other hand, if you think something, or ask something, or do something that seems (to me) to defy logic, I will be very straightforward in telling you how I see it.
Whether you like it (my view) or not doesn't matter. You either use it, or discard it.

But, if you want to debate the intracies of that subject ... I am up for that, too.

CM

[bigted]

ok so much for "intracies"...i dont wanna ...nor will i play ...so...what does this have to do with sight angles FRIEND?

the angles are still off and the filing method ...while not outta bounds for me...do not seem like such a good selling point for these sight manufacturers.

[montana_charlie]

ok so much for "intracies"...i dont wanna ...nor will i play ...so...what does this have to do with sight angles FRIEND?

Nuthin' ... I was only talking about (in this thread) 'reading instructions' so as to avoid being dependant on others for information.

But, you got the angle thing fixed on the MVA sight.
Now, I presume, you are troubled with the C. Sharps tang sight.
Is that one that looks like the old Lyman sights ... eyepiece stuck on a screw, that pokes up out of a knurled barrel, which is hinged to a base?
Kinda like this ... ?


I have one of that style on a lever gun, and filing (or shimming) the contact point between the base and the 'body' is the only angle adjustment I know of.
If your sight lays back when it's folded down, the 'adjustment' is done in front of the pivot point.

I have toyed with two plans for a permanently adjustable fix, but haven't pursued either one because, realistically speaking, once you get it set for the gun that it's on it doesn't gain anything from being 'adjustable'.

CM

[bigted]

i agree with the premis that once the sight is adjusted it will stay there...and no my marples sights are like the old lyman style as pictured...my c-sharps is like the mva in looks alone. it seems like an inferior sight in many ways and will be the last c-sharps sight ill be buying of this style. the sight i refer to is a look-a-like to the MVA sharps style vernier. guess ill just get the file out and disasemble it and "adjust" it for the hiwalls.

[Longwood]

If I intend for you to feel insulted, there will be no doubt in your mind.

Eggsagely!

[Longwood]

The Marbles on my Hi-wall needed a tiny bit of fine tuning with my Dremmel.
It would sit straight if I put a little forward pressure on it, but would not stay there.

[montana_charlie]

no my marples sights are like the old lyman style as pictured...my c-sharps is like the mva in looks alone. it seems like an inferior sight in many ways and will be the last c-sharps sight ill be buying of this style. the sight i refer to is a look-a-like to the MVA sharps style vernier.

Uhh ... is that a fairly new sight?
From looking at their website (over the years) it looks like they have changed their sights a bit. They used to sell a 'old dead guys' style that did not have a vernier scale for elevation, and it (maybe) didn't have the adjustable staff spring.
All of their current tang sights seem to have both features.
Choose the brand that you like best, but just don't make your decision on 'old criteria'.

guess ill just get the file out and disasemble it and "adjust" it for the hiwalls.

One little comment about that sight and a Highwall ...
Do you have the base mounted on the tang with the long leg pointed backward? That's the normal/traditional configuration for the 'Winchester'-style guns.

CM

[bigted]

i spose maybe i didnt explain it so you could get the picture...here allow me to re-state my comment.

not only is it a c-sharps sight but it IS a vernier style sight! it ALSO has a winchester base which IS mounted correctly! this is a CURRENT sight and only around 3 or 4 mounths old which cost me 250.00 dollars which isnt real expensive for a vernier but IS enough that it should be rite from the get go...especially from an american company that is in competion with another good american company and they DO make their products correctly... and as the cost is there...so is the "buy it once and use for the rest of your life" theory...[ i also have the same style of sight from them and it is flawless]... instead of the..."lets take it apart and make it work with hand tools here at home" type product ....as it has no adjustment available for angle of repose and needs the adjustment to be correct in angle to the bore! there are other flaws [in my opinion] with this sight but that is purely my expectation and never was advertized to be all i wanted...rather the sight was a cheaper sight but...the angle should be rite...in my humble opinion!

my pedrosoli staff sight also needs a correction with the cheep sight that comes on the pedrosoli and uberti long range rifles...however i intend that with it i will get it on target and leave it there and so will adjust it and be somewhat happy with it.

my marples sights are fine sights but cost a fraction of the others and i can ALMOST see having to 'adjust' them for the correct angle! and no they are NOT the vernier style...they are the same animal that you so conviently posted a photo of charlie.

my only reson to post the question in the first place was to detemine 1- if others had the same problems with these sights ...and 2- what did they do about it to make it rite! questions still stand and the "FIX" is still interesting to hear about!

[floodgate]

OK:

This inspired me to design a long range tang sight, with a staff CURVED along an arc struck from the center of the front sight, so the aperture would ALWAYS be square-on to the line of sight. Of course, this would require the elevation adjustment screw to be curved, too and,...and.... Oh, never mind; let's put that patent application back in the file...

Floodgate

[montana_charlie]

i spose maybe i didnt explain it so you could get the picture...here allow me to re-state my comment.

not only is it a c-sharps sight but it IS a vernier style sight! it ALSO has a winchester base which IS mounted correctly! this is a CURRENT sight and only around 3 or 4 mounths old ....as it has no adjustment available for angle of repose and needs the adjustment to be correct in angle to the bore!

This image comes straight from the C. Sharps website.
As you look on the base of each of those sights (except the Lyman #2 style), you can see the head of a screw that (presumably) anchors the staff spring.
It is not one of the two (unseen) mounting screws, so it can only be the spring anchor.

Does your C. Sharps sight not have the third screw in the base?

If you DO have the third screw, does it not allow adjustment of the spring position?

CM

[Longwood]

OK:

This inspired me to design a long range tang sight, with a staff CURVED along an arc struck from the center of the front sight, so the aperture would ALWAYS be square-on to the line of sight. Of course, this would require the elevation adjustment screw to be curved, too and,...and.... Oh, never mind; let's put that patent application back in the file...

Floodgate

With todays machining techniques, making one with a rack and pinions would be possible and fairly easy.

[Simonpie]

OK:

This inspired me to design a long range tang sight, with a staff CURVED along an arc struck from the center of the front sight, so the aperture would ALWAYS be square-on to the line of sight. Of course, this would require the elevation adjustment screw to be curved, too and,...and.... Oh, never mind; let's put that patent application back in the file...

Floodgate

Not quite true. If the screw attached only at the eyepiece and the the top, it could be free to swing with the arc of the curved ladder. A spherical bearing at the ends would be nice, but simple slop would work. Some screws have marks for counting fractions of rotation, and these would be inaccurate over long adjustments, but the vernier would still be accurate. I say do it!