Another 22 ammo issue

[BeeMan]

Below is my less than favorable rimfire account, prompted by Buckshot's comment on the thread Molly started.

"I have read of a few incidents with centerfire rifles and factory ammunition having had various issues. Invariably the maker issues a UPS call tag and asks to have both the balance of the ammo and the firearm shipped to them. It seems that CCI's customer service dept simply took a pretty cavalier attitude."

I previously favored Remington bulk pack 22 hollowpoints, since local availability and price helped offset the rate the kids went through them. I regularly picked up another box when we got below a couple on hand.

Last year feeding issues and light strikes started occurring with several rifles and pistols, with various action types. All are domestic guns of good quality and none have match chambers. I wondered if dirty firearms might have been partly to blame so everything was thoroughly cleaned. No change. Next I tried some Federal bulk stuff and every gun functioned fine.

A micrometer revealed the problem. The Remington lead is knurled and diameter varied significantly between boxes (different lots). It was as large as .228 on quite a few samples from one box in particular.

I sent a detailed note to Remington explaining the issues with multiple guns, cleaning to eliminate other causes, the dimensions I found with one lot of their ammunition, and requested assistance. They replied to send the stuff in at my expense, marked as ORD(?), and they would look at it. That was it. There was no offer to pay shipping, no suggestion to dispose due to safety concerns, or much less replace the lot with oversize knurling.

Since the hassle and shipping expense exceeded the cost of new Federal, I set the remaining Remington aside. I will personally use it in a bolt action with a more generous chamber, so my kids don't have to clear jams and misfires.

I'm in manufacturing and understand tolerances. No heartburn from here if the manufacturer just takes responsibility. I also take gun safety seriously. With 2 to 3 kids on the line, regular misfires and feeding jams create an undue level of risk. Remington showed little interest in helping, so their 22 ammo is history for me.

Your experience may differ.

BeeMan

[Cherokee]

The Remington Bulk stuff "Thunderbolt" works great in every one of my very old to relatively new 22's. Its even the most accurate in several.

[jh45gun]

I had some Thunderbolt ammo that I left on the front seat of my truck in the summer later when I shot it, it really leaded up my barrel of my Ruger Pistol I had at the time. I mean to the point of being a smooth bore!!!!!! I figure the lube must have melted off in the hot truck enough that it leaded the barrel. Now I know that is not Remingtons fault as I left it in a hot place, though they could maybe use better lube ??? on these cheap bullets why I am posting this is so no one else has the same problem.

[KYCaster]

Model 597™ Rimfire Rifles
Imagine a 22 autoloader with perfect balance, its weight anchored solidly between your hands. Picture an innovative action design that features a rugged, nickel-plated bolt with two steel guide rails for strength and flawless functioning. These are the kind of traits normally found in expensive centerfire rifles.

But with all the design innovations we've incorporated in the Model 597, including its unique barrel attachment system and patented dual stack detachable magazine box, we've created a family of rimfire autoloaders with the looks, feel, handling, and performance of centerfire rifles. Model 597 autoloaders - rimfire the way it ought to be.


I coppied this from the Rem. website (probably breaking some kinda copyright law). This 597 really sounds like a nice rifle.....looks great too. Obviously Rem's aim at the Ruger 10/22 market.

Well....several years ago Rem consolidated all their R&D operations and built their new facility right around the corner from me. A couple of their techs started coming to the IPSC matches where I was match director at the time, so I asked them if they could provide a 597 and some ammo to run a side match. They jumped at the chance.

They showed up match day with a laminated stocked, blued 597 and a case of Thunderbolt ammo. It was a really sharp looking rifle. The match was six steel plates at 25 yds., fastest total time of three runs wins.

Being the HMIC....I had to be first in line just to see that everything worked as planned. NINETEEN runs later, I had three six round strings without a jam (not consecutive)....some failure to extract.....some failure to feed. Three different types of ammo didn't help. The cure was....flood the chamber and action with lube before every string.

Needless to say, I was very disappointed, and the two techs were very embarassed.

A couple of months later they offered to do the same thing with shotguns. Same plates, one run with 870 pump and one run with 1100 semi auto, best total time wins....Equally disastrous results. We finished the day with a borrowed Mossberg pump and a 25 YO 1100 ***. truck gun that a couple of guys just happened to have with them.

You'd think that with the entire Green Machine behind them these guys could come up with at least one gun and a box of ammo that would work.....you'd be wrong.

Now, I still have the first 1100 I ever bought. I've tried Win, Barreta, Browning, Mossberg and Benelli and I still think Rem beats them all for the kind of shooting I do with it.(YMMV) So I'm not completely soured on Rem., but I think my experience with them just reflects the current state of corporate America....make a product that appeals to the masses and to hell with the individual consumer.

Enjoy
Jerry

[fecmech]

KY--somwhere along the line Remington found a way to screw up a good thing. I've chrono'd their thunderbolt ammo and the extream spread on many 10 round strings is in excess of 300 fps! It's so bad you can hear the difference. Now I shoot Federal bulk pack, accurate and uniform. The older 1100's were good guns I had one in the late 60's and could go 600-800 rds easily between cleanings. Bought an 1187 a few years back and it would'nt do 100 rds of sporting without screwing up. Just picked up an older (little used) 12 ga framed 20 ga 1100 a few months back and it is just like my old one, reliable and just keeps on ticking. Remington does'nt make anything I want to buy today.

[Freightman]

I ordered some super colibri for my tree rat problem (pestelence) and ordered some Aguila super to get more for the freight. I have been very surprised by it and when this brick is gone I will order more.

[J Miller]

jh45gun said:

I had some Thunderbolt ammo that I left on the front seat of my truck in the summer later when I shot it, it really leaded up my barrel of my Ruger Pistol I had at the time. I mean to the point of being a smooth bore!!!!!! I figure the lube must have melted off in the hot truck enough that it leaded the barrel. Now I know that is not Remingtons fault as I left it in a hot place, though they could maybe use better lube ??? on these cheap bullets why I am posting this is so no one else has the same problem.

Sometimes just going out in the open to shoot will expose ammo to extream heat.
I had that problem when I lived in AZ. I got in the habbit of putting my ammo in an old IGLOO ice chest so the heat wouldn't get too it.

If you still have any of that ammo left, or I this happens to anyone, get some Lee Liquid Alox lube, thin it down and dunk the .22 bullet into it. It's a pain in the butt, but less so than cleaning lead out of a barrel.

Joe

[lovedogs]

Fortunately, I've had relatively few problems with my guns. But I have had a few with Remingtons and Rugers with mixed results. I've sent a few Rugers in for correction and have had good results. If you call or write them (at least in my experience) they'll give you the run-around and piss you off to no end. But if you just send it in with a polite description of the problem it usually gets fixed. With Remington I've never had anything but the run-around. They give every excuse they can think of but never offer to give any service. I still own some Remingtons and love them but I'm no longer a "Remington man". I look for the features I want and will buy anything that meets the need. Surprisingly enough I've had very good results with "cheap" Howa's. Nowadays it's hard to get real service from any of the big makers, in my opinion.

[redneckdan]

DO NOT SHOOT THUNDER BOLTS IN RUGER MKII PISTOLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The MTU pistol club owns a flock of MKIIs, we tried thunderbolts cause they were cheap, quickest way I've ever found to turn a pistol into a smooth bore. They were so bad we wore out a brand new outer's foul outer tryin to clean the things. I'm not gonna mention how we had to get the lead out, would make the profession gun cranks amoung us slightly squeemish.

[wiljen]

I had some Thunderbolt ammo that I left on the front seat of my truck in the summer later when I shot it, it really leaded up my barrel of my Ruger Pistol I had at the time. I mean to the point of being a smooth bore!!!!!! I figure the lube must have melted off in the hot truck enough that it leaded the barrel. Now I know that is not Remingtons fault as I left it in a hot place, though they could maybe use better lube ??? on these cheap bullets why I am posting this is so no one else has the same problem.

This is a classic problem with thunderbolt ammo in Ruger pistols - do a web search - you are not alone.

Wiljen

[monadnock#5]

When I first started out in 4 position smallbore rifle, I was told that Federal 711B was the way to go for ammo. And I did shoot 711B quite happily for a couple years. Then, I started getting misfires. Anyone who shoots in competition can tell you how disconcerting it is to have the perfect position, perfect hold, clear concentration, and....CLICK. I checked the dud rounds, all had good hits on the rim. Sometimes in practice I would reorient the round, try it again, and most times get it to fire. So I gave up on 711B. (So did Federal a couple of years later.) Meanwhile, fellow shooters questioned my use of more expensive ammo. I could not get them to understand that good ole 711 B wasn't good enough for me. To them it had to be a problem with my rifle, and that I couldn't get it to a gunsmith soon enough. I never did go to the gunsmith. Instead I purchased various flavors of Wolf, RWS, and Eley ammo, and haven't had a misfire since.

So, I guess the point for me is not to buy a case of ammo until one has tested a brick from the lot, to make sure that it's up to standard. And that a fellow shooters satisfaction in an ammo for his/her application, does not mean that you will be equally as satisfied.

The last two 50 round boxes of 711B I had got left behind at the range 2 or 3 summers ago. I sure hope whoever picked them up had better luck than me. Good luck, and good riddance.

Ken

[Bullshop Junior]

I WILL NEVER USE THUNDER BOLTS FOR ANY REASON WHAT SO EVER!!!!!

I shoot a Marlin Model 60. I have tried

• Remington bulk H.P.
• Remington Thunder bolts
• Remington sub-sonic H.P.
• Federal bulk
• Federal lightning
• Federal game-shok
• Federal American eagle H.P.
• CCI stingers
• CCI mini mag H.P.
• CCI standard vel

I shoot left hand, and the only thing that will not spit fire in my face is the Federals, and the CCIs. ALL REMINGTONS ARE JUNK!!! I got several kinds of match ammo from the local 22 range, that fell on the carpet, and they would not use it. It all was JUNK And I hated every bit of it, especially the Elys because they stink when they are shot. I can still smell them. I am getting rid of the marlin, and am going to get a charles-daly superior 2 bolt gun.
Any way if you want to rune your gun and your face, go head and shoot the remingtons. If you want to keep your rifle shoot something else.
DANIEL/BS Jr.

[fiberoptik]

I also have a long history with remington .22 ammo. It seems that I always find the rem. bulk plated .22 LR ammo on sale. It also seems that I have a Minimum of 7+ duds in every hundred rounds. They don't fire, even when tried repeatedly. They also have the biggest spread, the worst accuracy, and the highest P.O. factor of anything I've ever shot. I stick with CCI's (blasers work great & cheap), WW (dynapoints), and on occation, Federal. For hunting, I usually stick with Dynapoints. I've got both of Paco's tools for .22's and LOVE THEM! Even the shorts drop squirrels now!

[joeb33050]

I have a Ruger MKII that I shoot from the Miraclerest at 50 and 100 yards. I've tried a lot of different ammunition including many of the bulk packs and Federal was-red-is-now-blue-box. I've settled on CCI Standard Velocity and Remington Target blue-and-green. I'm trying to find which is more accurate, both will AVERAGE under 2" at 50 yards and under 4" at 100 yards for five 10 shot groups.
Some days Rem, some days CCI is better = more accurate.
I have not tried the very expensive Eley, Lapua, etc ammo, except for a part of a box of Eley pistol, that did not do great.
I've never shot any of the HV 22s in this gun, they don't work and haven't worked in any 22 target rifle I own or have owned. Not accurate.
Funny how experiences vary.
joe brennan

[Freightman]

My brother in-law brought me two old 22's and said get rid of them I do not want them around anymore! Well one was a Marlin M60 and the other was a 190 Winchester with no skuffs or wore blue on eather, so I took the M60 apart and I have never seen a gun so caked up with gunk. Got it clean and back together and went to the range with three boxes of Aquila extreem speed shot them as fast as possable without overheating not one failier.
The Winchester was missing a part so I am waiting for it , but it also was very dirty and the barrel was about off it was so loose. Will see how it does when I get the part , tightned up the barrel fine.

[ray ott]

In the mid 60's I switched from WW Leader to CCI std.vel. Worked fine in the Rem.510, occasional misfires in the M53 S&W. Told CCI (gave brick lot #),they sent me a fresh brick,noting they'd had other feedback on that lot and asked me to return the opened brick all @ their expense. They backed up their product,I still buy that brand.

[Tom Herman]

I sent a detailed note to Remington explaining the issues with multiple guns, cleaning to eliminate other causes, the dimensions I found with one lot of their ammunition, and requested assistance. They replied to send the stuff in at my expense, marked as ORD(?), and they would look at it. That was it. There was no offer to pay shipping, no suggestion to dispose due to safety concerns, or much less replace the lot with oversize knurling.

I'm in manufacturing and understand tolerances. BeeMan

I've been having fits with .22 RF in my Mark II as of late as well. LOTS of failures to fire. I pulled the heads, and most of the rounds had partial or missing priming.
I checked, and sho'nuff, they are Remington Golden Bullets.
Your experience reminds me of an incident I had with Hornady: I was loading ammo for the M1 Garand, and bought about 500 (5 boxes) of one type of bullet.
I couldn't believe my eyes! there were three different types of bullets in the packages! They were similar, but distinct. You could tell they had different shapes and ogives.
I called them up, and the idiot at the other end of the phone said that this is common, and it's OK... I couldn't believe my ears!
Needless to say, I used that crap for plinking and bought better bullets elsewhere.

Happy Shootin'! -Tom

[Bret4207]

I have not had real bad experiences with Remington CF, but the RF is another story. Yes, misfires are common in multiple guns that feed and fire Fed and Win fine. My favorite was the Win white box Dyna Points when Walmart still had them.

[Junior1942]

If you buy 22 ammo because it's the cheapest Wal-Mart sells, you get what you pay for. It's the cheapest because the factory unloaded a boxcar(s) full of it on Wal-Mart. The factory got rid of it cheap because of (1) misfires; and (2) high SD.

One round will go over the Chrony at 1150 fps, and the next round goes over it at 850 fps. If you're shooting an autoloader, the 850 fps round usually fails to eject.

[BD]

I've had 2 or 3 duds per hundred in both the Federal bulk pack and the Remington bulk pack purchased at Walmart for 3 or 4 years now. I'd been blaming the ammo makers, not the retailer. I think I still blame the ammo makers. If the stuff is crap, and they knew it and still wholesaled it, I blame them even more.

+1 on the Thunderbolts leading my ruger 22/45.

BD