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Thread: Poor man's Rook rifle

  1. #41
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCRider View Post
    I imagine that the classic British rook rifles were set up to shoot slow ammo so that the bullet didn't carry far in the event of a miss.

    With that in mind what about something chambered in .32S&W or .32S&W Long and held back with lower power loads? The data I can find for .32S&W indicates less than 600fps muzzle velocity. I'd expect that any misses would fall back to earth reasonably quickly at that sort of speed. Not that what is beyond the target should be ignored mind you. Just that a round of that sort makes looking downrange and evaluating the situation more possible.

    The slick thing is that at this sort of velocity and with a CUP of 9500 tops it suggests that the slick and light .410 shotguns could be used as the basis for a nice conversion. We'd just need to find .32 size barrel blanks with suitable twist rates.
    Something thats has always remained in my head. .32S&W long loaded with a 98gn HBWC around the 600-700 fps range would be real hard to beat for up close small game. Quiet, thump a good wound channel, clean killer, minimum meat loss and minimum bullet carry.


    Correct me if I'm wrong, were'nt most Rook Rifles converted to 410 bore because rifle restriction laws in the U.K?

    To me that would be all the more reason for grabbing hold of these old 410's and reconverting back to what they are suppose to be!

  2. #42
    Boolit Master


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    Correct me if I'm wrong, were'nt most Rook Rifles converted to 410 bore because rifle restriction laws in the U.K?

    To me that would be all the more reason for grabbing hold of these old 410's and reconverting back to what they are suppose to be!
    That would be nice, but as gun laws tightened, the .410's were destroyed too.
    America, beware!
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    Mike

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  3. #43
    Boolit Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Attachment 72192Attachment 72193Attachment 72194Attachment 72195Attachment 72196

    Here are some pics of the converted Remington 580 in .32 ACP

  4. #44
    Boolit Master BCRider's Avatar
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    Outpost, if I can find a barrel of suitable length I think you just cost me a few hours of shop time at some point.

    Call me crazy for thinking this but I'm also thinking that a .410 double converted to a double rifle chambered in .32S&W Long or perhaps .32 H&R depending on which brass I can find might be a great option.

    Or...... Modify a Stevens pivoting block .32 rimfire into a .32S&W gun.

    Or, dare I even plan this far ahead, make up a whole new action that mimics a Springfield trap door or Snider flip over door breech action.
    Witty saying to be plagarized shortly.....

  5. #45
    Boolit Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    The most cost-effective is to find one of the small pre-war H&R or Iver-Johnson .410s using the small action. You can often find them at gun shows or yard sales for under $100. You don't care about bore condition because you will use only the breech end of the barrel for a mono-bloc and then sleeve it with a piece of rifle barrel. Ordinary ten-inch twist .30 cal. barrels are fine. For a short-barreled .32 I used a pull-off M1 Garand barrel, cutting it off at the gasport and chamber neck, then turning down what was left to finish about 18" long.Attachment 72231

  6. #46
    Boolit Master BCRider's Avatar
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    The .308 bore isn't too small for the .312 size boolit from a .32S&W? Seems like a long way for the boolit to swage down as it transitions into the rifling. Obviously not since you're doing it but I'm wondering about how it all works out since it seems somewhat extreme.

    No arguing about the looks of the final outcome though. That prewar wood design looks very classy on your rifle. Far nicer than the chunky looking stocks they produce these days.
    Witty saying to be plagarized shortly.....

  7. #47
    Boolit Buddy Jack D's Avatar
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    I have no idea what a Rook is, but my rifle project seems to fit in with what some are referring to in this thread. I'm continually tinkering with it and lately replaced the Weaver scope with a Bushnell 3-9X40mm with 6" eye relief. I had to mount it on a 1/2" riser, but it works very well. The Weaver scout is mounted on my Benjamin Sheridan air rifle now. I have ordered a 45 degree side mount for the laser and a light for the forearm rail.

    For targets, I load 148 gr. WC with 3 gr. Trailboss and 180 gr. XTP or 200 gr. FTX with ~18 gr IMR4227 for larger targets. See my .357 Magnum rifle page (link below) for load particulars.

    My ".357 magnum project" page: http://www.metalsmithpro.com/357MagnumRifle.htm

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Jack D
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    My home page: http://www.metalsmithpro.com

  8. #48
    Boolit Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    The chamber reamer which John Taylor used on my rifles has a gradual throat which handles factory loads with .314-.315 bullets quite well. It is the throat diameter which determines bullet diameter, not the groove diameter of the barrel. I shoot as-cast, unsized Saeco #325 and #322 bullets at .315" as-cast diameter in my .32 rifles and revolvers. Using soft alloy and moderate loads which remain subsonic in then rifle, there are no pressure issues. Unlike some others, I have not tried to see how fast I could drive bullets in my .32 rifles, because doing so defeats the purpose of having a mild mannered, small game rifle in the first place. If I wanted my ears to ring and my shoulder to hurt I could use my .30-'06!

    I prefer something mild enough that I can shoot a rabbit raiding my kitchen garden without using ear protection or disturbing the neighbors. Longer barrels are preferred. My 26" barreled rook rifle firing 115-gr. #3118 or 120-grain Saeco #322 with 1 grain of Bullseye, at 600 fps produces a measured peak pressure decibel reading of 78dB at 1 metre from the muzzle. Not much more than an air rifle.

  9. #49
    Boolit Master BCRider's Avatar
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    Thanks for that info Outpost. I'm still very much in the learning mode. Your description of the throating and limited speed makes a lot of sense for this situation.
    Witty saying to be plagarized shortly.....

  10. #50
    Boolit Master


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    The .308 bore isn't too small for the .312 size boolit from a .32S&W?
    T/C has been using .308 bores for .32-20 for years. That makes many more boolits usable.
    Best,
    Mike

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  11. #51
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    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	72299pictures of a Model 39 copy sold by Kasnar/K-Mart
    Barrel is a 2 groove 03 barrel, chambered in 32-20
    these barrels come off parade rifles and had a pin driven into them and welded
    machine the breech to fit 12ga, machine the rest of the barrel to fit in the 12ga barrel
    make a collar for the muzzle, glue or pin the insert into the 12ga barrel
    extend the extractor and fit
    my friend mounted a scope on this one
    if a H&R is used the parts can be bought from them to convert to extractor instead of ejector
    also a 22horbet extractor that can be fitted for the 32-20

  12. #52
    Boolit Man WinMike's Avatar
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    All this brings to mind the various cartridges one could convert the various single-shot 410. The possible conversions mentioned above all appear to probably be appropriate.

    SAAMI .410 pressures for 3" shells are 13,500-14,000 CUP (interestingly, higher than all except 3 1/2" 12 gauge). That's lower than most handgun or rifle cartridges: 32-20= 16,000 CUP; 32 Long=15,000 CUP; 38 Special=17,000 CUP, and so on. But the difference isn't egregious; those conversions shown above indicate that the actions used are strong enough for many handgun cartridges.

    However, .357 Mag, 41 Mag, 44 Mag are all 35,000+, so obviously, one should use only the stronger actions, such as T-C and so on.

    I mention this because I have a Winchester single-shot in .410 sitting in my safe. It's a beater, and converting it to something else wouldn't affect the value much. I've thought about lining the barrel or installing an insert in, say, 44 Special, 41 Special or some other low CUP cartridges that wouldn't require much change to the extractor. But I'm just in the "wonder what if...." stage.....

  13. #53
    Boolit Master Airman Basic's Avatar
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    Reminds me of an old codger who came into the LGS here, bragging about his "automatic single shot" deer rifle. Turned out to be an H & R handi-rifle in .410. He shoots 44 mags in it, and as he put it, the action pops right open after firing, ready for another round. Told him I'd take his word on it. No demo necessary.

  14. #54
    Boolit Master leeggen's Avatar
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    You know the wife has a 410 "snake shooter" yup thats the name. real short barrel, recon. that might work.
    CD

  15. #55
    Boolit Master Airman Basic's Avatar
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    Those snake charmers were stainless 410s with short barrels and just enough stock to make it a little rifle. Handy in a boat. Had one but can't remember what happened to the thing or who made it.

  16. #56
    Boolit Master Artful's Avatar
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    H Coon made mine - it's a 3 lb fun toy - I'm starting to think barrel insert now.

  17. #57
    Boolit Master
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    One of the things to keep in mind when doing these types of conversions is that chamber pressure isn't nearly as important as breech face thrust. I wont get long winded, and every formula I've seen for the calculation has been different, but if considering a conversion of a low pressure action, it would be worth looking into.

    I currently have 3 32 caliber rifles, and 2 more donor actions waiting for the conversion. One of the donor actions is a tiny .410 double. I think I'll leave one barrel as a .410 and just convert the other, and have a "small game cape gun". of cours,e I've been threatening to do that for a long time and it hasn't happened yet, so...
    Nozombies.com Practical Zombie Survival

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  18. #58
    Boolit Master
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    "of cours,e I've been threatening to do that for a long time and it hasn't happened yet, so... "

    Man I know what you mean , I have a Yildiz folding 410 with a savage 30-30 darrel shortened and chambered to 32SW long. Been in process for several years , still need to get the skinner rear sight installed. It point shoots well ,but kinda hard to judge a group! I aquired a Rem M25 carbine during this time and the little Remington has become my "American Rook Rifle", Fits in with my pump gun addition, and the 32-20 is just right! Gonna get the sight on the Yildiz ...soon.
    BY the way for you that have an Acadamy Sports nearby , look into the little Yildiz ,120$ brand new , 410 size ,WAY better fit and finish than NEFs much less Rossie. Bought 1 to convert to 32SWL ,shot it as a 410 .Had to go buy another to convert , the little 410 mwas so much fun. I shoot skeet singles ,dove hunt, and just plain wander the woods with it. Best 120$ I spent in a long time.

  19. #59
    Boolit Master
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    Rking, great minds must think alike. I, too haven't converted the Yildz I bought for that purpose, as I was able to buy a small frame .410 already converted from a member here.
    That little folding .410 is an absolute wand, and makes the other .410's feel clunky.
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  20. #60
    Boolit Man WinMike's Avatar
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    "Reminds me of an old codger who came into the LGS here, bragging about his "automatic single shot" deer rifle. Turned out to be an H & R handi-rifle in .410. He shoots 44 mags in it, and as he put it, the action pops right open after firing, ready for another round. Told him I'd take his word on it. No demo necessary."

    Well, I have a vintage 12-gauge double that does the same thing. Long as I shoot low-base it's OK; doesn't seem to like 2 1/2" magnums. Probably has to do with that breech face force spoken of so often.....

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