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Thread: Poor man's Rook rifle

  1. #21
    Boolit Buddy


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    The full name is "Rook and Rabbit Rifle". I suppose the rooks should be shot on the ground as they ate crops.
    I'll bet your low wall is sweet. I want one in .32-20 to go with my high wall.
    Last edited by Shooter; 08-09-2012 at 07:44 AM. Reason: typing
    Best,
    Mike

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    Remember Ira Hayes

  2. #22
    Boolit Master

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    I have converted many small shotguns to rifle with small cartridges. Seems most have been made into 32 S&W or H&R mag. The old H&R 410 small frame is an ideal starter if you can find one. Best to cut the old barrel off making a mono block and screwing in a new barrel. Some of the shotgun barrel will warp if reamed out for a liner and turning a liner down can cause the rifling to become un-even ( had this happen once or it could have been a bad liner to start with) I have a Rem 581 that is going to be a 32ACP when I get time.

  3. #23
    Boolit Master pietro's Avatar
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    Sort of on this idea




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    Experience is a wonderful thing - It lets you recognize a mistake, when you make it again.

  4. #24
    Boolit Buddy



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    pietro....How about the details on your rifle sir ?? Looks like what I am trying to do sir......

    rick

  5. #25
    Boolit Master
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    I've got a Remington 581 in .32 S&W long, and it's a shooter!

    Molly and I talked at length about these kinds of guns, and there have been a number of projects started by members here. I think I currently have 3 or 4 donor guns waiting for the time (and/or money) to be right, along with a few others that are in differing stages of completion.

    One of the donor guns I have here is a Beretta folding single shot .410 that I picked up for a song at a pawn shop. I think I paid less than $50 OTD for it. Since it folds, it should make for a heck of a small package when it's all done.
    Nozombies.com Practical Zombie Survival

    I collect all things .32. If you have something you don't need, please let me know!

  6. #26
    Boolit Master pietro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jumbeaux View Post
    pietro....How about the details on your rifle sir ?? Looks like what I am trying to do sir......

    rick

    A machinist/buddy, now past (sadly), turned down a milsurp 8x57J bbl (.318" bore) to fit inside the .410 chamber/bore.

    Don't ask me how - I just gave him both bbls, and he returned the completed job to me - but the 8x57 chamber was gone, replaced with a .32-20.
    The issue extractor/etc was built up/extended with welding & shaped to accept the .32-20 tiny rim.
    I should probably bush the FP, but I just haven't bothered, as yet - since it goes "boom" ok, and opens smoothly.

    I HAD a long eye-relief Weaver J-2.5 scope on it, but unfortunately broke it in a fall.
    The RF scope is just for kicks/giggles.

    The remainder of the gun is a plain-old ca. 1922 H&R/Mass Arms .410, nickle-plated receiver & all.


    Quote Originally Posted by NoZombies

    One of the donor guns I have here is a Beretta folding single shot .410 that I picked up for a song at a pawn shop. I think I paid less than $50 OTD for it. Since it folds, it should make for a heck of a small package when it's all done.
    FWIW, Although not a Rook Rifle, many years ago I converted a Beretta Folding Companion into a .44 Mag carbine via unsweating the shot bbl from the monoblock & replacing it with a .44 bbl for Winchester 92's, that Numrich Arms was hawking at the time.




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    Last edited by pietro; 08-13-2012 at 09:53 AM.
    Experience is a wonderful thing - It lets you recognize a mistake, when you make it again.

  7. #27
    Boolit Buddy



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    pietro....Thank you sir.....I do have another question: How long is the fitted insert ?? I have been looking at about 10" or so in length.....do you know if he machined a shoulder to butt up against the .410 barrel which would have needed counterboring ?? Also, did he use Locktite ??

    rick

  8. #28
    Boolit Master pietro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jumbeaux View Post
    pietro....Thank you sir.....I do have another question: How long is the fitted insert ?? I have been looking at about 10" or so in length.....do you know if he machined a shoulder to butt up against the .410 barrel which would have needed counterboring ?? Also, did he use Locktite ??

    rick
    I'm afraid I'm unfamiliar with the particulars of how he did the actual work, and he's unfortunately no longer around to ask..............

    But I think I remember him mentioning soldering the turned-down bbl inside the .410 bbl - It's just that IDK about any pre-machining he did to the .410 bbl.

    The .32-20 bbl's/insert's an inch or two shy of full-length, so it still looks like a .410 shotgun from the muzzle.

    .
    Experience is a wonderful thing - It lets you recognize a mistake, when you make it again.

  9. #29
    Boolit Buddy tacklebury's Avatar
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    Gunsmith buddy of mine did one as a sleeve and soldered it. I've heard of epoxy being used on some too. If I were doing it, I'd do it as John Taylor recommended up above. Most of the really successful ones I've seen were done in that manner.

  10. #30
    Boolit Master
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    There were .380 caliber rook rifles.

    H&R once made a .410 shotgun on a small frame. Had one back in the late 70's-early 80's. Wish I had kept it.

    Rossi makes a small frame .410 single shot today. Mine is a .410/.22LR combination. At one time they also made pistol caliber rifles (.357, .44 Magnum, .45 Colt). I tried for years to get one of those but could never find one.

    My ideal would be with .357/.358 bore but chambered for the .38 SW 9.360 caliber)and short throated for round balls.

    Rook/small game shooting is a short range affair where low report and low danger space, esecially when shooting up into trees, are very important. That is round ball territory.

  11. #31
    Boolit Master
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    Rooks were commonly shot in the trees and at their roosts.

  12. #32
    Longwood
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    When I was in the sixth grade,,, a neighbor boy of my age went to prison for shooting pigeons from a barn roof with a 22 long rifle.
    The bullet came down and hit a lady in the shoulder at the base of her neck. She was over 1/2 mile away and in her yard hanging clothes on a line to dry. The bullet went down an artery into her heart which killed her.
    The poor kid got seven and a half years.

  13. #33
    Boolit Buddy



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    Men I really don't intend to shoot anything out of trees with any rifle.....I have always wanted a small frame small caliber centerfire rifle with the classic British lines. Mostly for paper punching and plinking with reduced cast or cast ball handloads. Funds have kept me from the real thing........

    rick

  14. #34
    Boolit Buddy
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    This thread has got me to thinking also! I've got a 300Win Mag barrel 20" long (got it that way?) and thought about cutting off the old chamber and going with 30carbine. Should work with cast and would be easy to load. Looking for an old small frame 410 a action.
    Aaron

    Posted as another idea for your concideration.

  15. #35
    Boolit Buddy swamp's Avatar
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    I don't know if it fits the catagory, but I have alot of fun with my 310 cadets.

  16. #36
    Boolit Master

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    Another vote for 357 handi. Mines a 357 max @ 16":


  17. #37
    Boolit Man WinMike's Avatar
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    We've been talking....and thinking about a rook rifle in plus+ .30 caliber because that's what the Brit rifle was.

    That was my thought when I bought my .357 trad Browning low wall.

    But in reading all these posts, it occurred to me that an American version of a R&R rifle would be in a smaller, more efficient, caliber.

    For example, I also have a Browning low wall in .22 Hornet. According to most sources, it was developed in the 1920s, so wouldn't have made an impact for a while across the pond.

    It's a sweet-shooting, extremely accurate, easily carried, and best of all, has a nice 3 x 9 Leopold scope. I've shot many more critters (literally well over 1000....mostly ground squirrels) with it; lots more than with the .38/.357.

    And Hornady's newer .17 Hornet would be neat as well.

    And H&R and others made rifles in both calibers.....there you go!!!!

  18. #38
    Boolit Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    I can vouch for John Taylor's work. He built a .32 S&W Long rook rifle for me on the tiny pre-war. 410 action, which I am very happy with. Only weighs 4 pounds. Simply delightful!

  19. #39
    Boolit Buddy BCRider's Avatar
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    I imagine that the classic British rook rifles were set up to shoot slow ammo so that the bullet didn't carry far in the event of a miss.

    With that in mind what about something chambered in .32S&W or .32S&W Long and held back with lower power loads? The data I can find for .32S&W indicates less than 600fps muzzle velocity. I'd expect that any misses would fall back to earth reasonably quickly at that sort of speed. Not that what is beyond the target should be ignored mind you. Just that a round of that sort makes looking downrange and evaluating the situation more possible.

    The slick thing is that at this sort of velocity and with a CUP of 9500 tops it suggests that the slick and light .410 shotguns could be used as the basis for a nice conversion. We'd just need to find .32 size barrel blanks with suitable twist rates.
    Witty saying to be plagarized shortly.....

  20. #40
    Boolit Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Factory. 32 S&W long 98-grain LRN ammo which gets about 700 fps from a revolver develops about 850 fps from a 26-inch rook rifle. The lightest charge which exits the barrel reliably is 1 grain of Bullseye for 450 fps from the revolver and about 600 fps in the rifle.

    Ordinary 10-inch twist. 30 caliber barrels work fine. The faster twist improves accuracy with the very light, low noise loads, compared to the slower ones more commonly used, and do not impair accuracy with full charge loads which remain subsonic in the rifle.

    There is no need to exceed 2.5 grains of Bullseye in the. 32S&W Long case with a 120-grain bullet such as Saeco #322, which will give 800 fps in the 4-5/8" Ruger and 1030 fps in a 26" rook rifle.
    Last edited by Outpost75; 05-31-2013 at 11:21 PM.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check