Shooting gas checked CB's sans gas checks

[Maven]

I know this has been discussed recently, but a minor resizing error led me to examine this idea more closely. I was reshaping Lee C309-1800R's in a Hanned tapering die (It -> a .302" nose and a .3095" base with a perfectly flat gc base.) for my .30-06 the other day when I either forgot to add a gc or it didn't make it to the bottom punch (is identical to the ones that come with Lee sizer dies). Btw, the Hanned die completely eliminates the gc shank. It occurred to me that if such CB's shoot accurately, I could save $$ on gc's: This sounded better by the minute. I then proceeded to load 30 of them v. 30 gas checked ones at the same OAL, but with different powder charges: 15gr. WC 820 for the unchecked ones v. 18.5gr. for those with "copper" bottoms. The lube (Liquid Alox) and primers were identical (Fed. 210's). The gas checked CB's are a known commodity and didn't disappoint, but I can't say the same for their plain bottomed brethren: 5 moa with the added pleasure of bore leading was the best they could do. I'm thinking of repeating the experiment, but with 14gr. WC 820 and a greater OAL (I'll go to 3.30" next time instead of 3.20".)

As for using the Hanned die, (a) they're no longer available and (b) a PITA to use, but they turn undersized CB designs, e.g., the Lee, but also Lyman's #311291 (The nose is undersized, not the body.) into 1 moa shooters. However, if you yearn for a tapered CB that shoots well in many .30cal. rifles, including the very CB-friendly K-31, look for Lyman #311644 and be happy.

[Buckshot]

............If I should decide to try shooting GC designs sans GC, I'll go out and slam my fingers in the car door as a reminder

...............Buckshot

[Maven]

Rick, I couldn't agree more!

[Captain Midnight]

[QUOTE=Maven]I know this has been discussed recently, but a minor resizing error led me to examine this idea more closely. I was reshaping Lee C309-1800R's ...................

Maven ........... Typo? ......... a 1800 gr. 30 cal bullet must be about 6" long! Such a bullet would be good for shootin' elephants stem to stern. Captain

[Maven]

Capt. Midnight, So that was the problem! My rifle's twist rate wasn't designed for 1,800gr. bullets. Btw, the 180gr. that Lee claims the CB will weigh is only a fantasy: 173gr. straight from the mold is more realistic, but it does cast well even if the nose is too small for the '06 (but not for the 7.5 Swiss). Thanks for the correction.

[w30wcf]

I have had great results with the RCBS 150 in w.w + 2% tin without the gas check over 12.5 grs. of 4227 in the .30-30. Grouped in the 1 1/2" range @100 yards and in the 3" range @ 200. Velocity is around 1,400 f.p.s.

Another good load in the .30-30 with this bullet less the gas check is 6.5 grs. of 231 for 1,200 f.p.s. It shoots almost as good as the 12.5 / 4227 recipe.

w30wcf

[Urny]

Maven, when the mold we now call C309-180R was first introduced, it was called C309-174R. Mine (my first mold) is stamped C309-174R, and overstamped with C309-180R. Maybe old stock that got updated. Wheelweight boolits weigh right around 173-174 grains.

[XBT]

I have always shot gas check style boolits in my revolvers without the gas checks, but the recent discussions here have stirred my interest so this morning I loaded some .44’s and .357’s, identical in all respects except for the lack of gas checks on half the rounds.

The .44’s were shot in a S&W M-29 with a 8 3/8”barrel, the .357”s were shot in a S&W M-686 with a 6” barrel. Velocities were in the 1200 FPS range.

All groups were identical. I can see no difference in accuracy whether gas checks are used or not. I’ve tried the same experiment on a Win. M-94 30-30 with the same results, although I never tried to shoot the rifle faster than around 1200 FPS without gas checks.

I have found loading without the gas checks works fine for me, as long as velocities are kept to a reasonable level.

As someone here recently said; “your results may vary”

Jim

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
I've shot the NEI 160 swc gc w/out the gc w/ success at 38 special vel.
Never tried it in a rifle.