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Thread: CB Load for 7.7 Jap

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy mdevlin53's Avatar
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    CB Load for 7.7 Jap

    I have done a couple of searches but have not found a load with the powders i have on hand. I have a M99 that my dad brought from Tokyo after WWII and i have had it for years and never shot it. So i got some brass and a lee mold 312-180 and cast up a bunch. I have 2 load books and COTW but neither has a load for a cast boolit. I have these powders on hand
    4227
    3031
    4198
    4759
    4895
    and then there is trailboss
    I am looking for a paper target load as this rifle is way to heavy to lug into the woods and none of the game around here requires anti-aircraft sights to hit,
    I just need some low and high numbers so i can start safe and stay safe.
    Thanks
    Why Johnny Ringo you look like someone just walked over your grave.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master

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    I just got mine back in action, and shot a 316299 NOE sized to .314" and 16 grains of 2400. It shot great. I don't see that powder on your list, but I would think 4759 might be a good choice....others might chime in with experience, I'll look up some data when I am at home. I could always scan a page or two from a Lyman manual for you.

    Doug

  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy mdevlin53's Avatar
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    My Lyman and Lee guide only have Jwords listed so i am at a loss
    Why Johnny Ringo you look like someone just walked over your grave.

  4. #4
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Hopefully your 7.7 rifle as a groove diameter of .312. I suggest you simply add 2% tin to your COWWs, cast the C312-185s and let them air cool. Size and seat GC to as close to as cast diameter (.312 - .314) as you can. Lube with a good lube such as Lars 50/50 or 2500+. Best you get a Lyman .31 cal M die to flair/bell the case mouth and inside size the necks if you FL size the cases to begin with.

    For a load I suggest you start at 28 gr of 4895 and put a 3/4 gr dacron filler in the case after the powder. Seat the the bullet so the GC is not below the case neck. Work up in 1/2 gr increments to 32 gr. You should find an accurae load in the 28 - 32 gr range. Velocity will be between 1700 - 1950 fps for the most accurate load.

    Larry Gibson

  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by mdevlin53 View Post
    I have done a couple of searches but have not found a load with the powders i have on hand. I have a M99 that my dad brought from Tokyo after WWII and i have had it for years and never shot it. So i got some brass and a lee mold 312-180 and cast up a bunch. I have 2 load books and COTW but neither has a load for a cast boolit. I have these powders on hand
    4227
    3031
    4198
    4759
    4895
    and then there is trailboss
    I am looking for a paper target load as this rifle is way to heavy to lug into the woods and none of the game around here requires anti-aircraft sights to hit,
    I just need some low and high numbers so i can start safe and stay safe.
    Thanks
    First thing you should do is slug the barrel, one of my Lee C.312/185 R molds has been lapped out to give me a bullet large enough for one 7.65 Arg and the 7.7 Jap, I'm sizing .315 with a .305 nose diameter, 13 grs of Unique gives just under 1500 fps and does 1.5 " at 50 yds. Larry Gibson has given you good advice on 4895 load with dacron filler and Lyman CB handbook #3 has data for 200 gr cast and 4227 which could be used for starting data. 4759 should work in the 18-20 gr range too.
    Charter Member #148

  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy mdevlin53's Avatar
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    Thanks for the load data, even the load data from the die paperwork only has the pointy bullets. I loaded up 20 this afternoon with 4895. Five each with 28,29,30 and 31. next friday i will shoot it and see what it does. It will be the first time since the 50s that anyone has shot this rifle. I have been toting it around and keeping it clean for close to 30 years its about time.
    One thing cool about this rifle is that not only does it have all the design features of one of the earlier issues it also has the monopod rest a bayonet and the paperwork giving my dad permision to bring it home signed by the executive officer from the USS Iowa,
    Why Johnny Ringo you look like someone just walked over your grave.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    Larry I have been looking at the Lyman website and they list two 31cal M-dies.Would the 7.7x58 take a long M-die or short M-die?I also have a 7.7mm and starting to load for so I'm going to keep an eye on this post
    Last edited by ubetcha; 07-28-2012 at 09:04 PM.
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  8. #8
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by ubetcha View Post
    Larry I have been looking at the Lyman website and they list two 31cal M-dies.Would the 7.7x58 take a long M-die or short M-die?I also have a 7.7mm and sarting to load for so I'm going to keep an eye on this post

    You probably want the .31 Long M die which probably will work for both. If not you can shorten the die (turn or grind some off the bottom) so with the plug screwed out, a 7.7 jap in the shell holder with the ram up screw the die body down until the die bumps the shoulder of the 7.7 jap case or the bottom of the die hits the shell holder. Lock the die into place. Remove the 7.7 jap case and screw the sizing plug in and attempt to adjust it to bell the 7.7x58 case mouth. There should be enough adjustment to bell both cases.

    If the bottom of the die body can be shortened until a 7.7 jap goes in completely.

    The .31 short is made for the 7.62x39.

    Larry Gibson

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    The 7.7x58 is the Jap Arasaka.I just called it by it's
    metric name.Sorry
    I'm the King of my castle---anytime my wife's not around
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  10. #10
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    loads for the 308 or 30-06 will work fine in the 7.7.
    the 28.5 grs of 4895 with a filler larry quoted is my 308's favorite load.
    my 8 mauser likes 30 without [imr brand for both]
    my 7.5 swiss likes the 28,5 grs and a filler also only it likes the H- brand better.
    and 18 grs of 2400 is my wifes 0-6's favorite all year do-all load.
    16-18 grs of 2400 is really hard to beat in about any case from the 300 savage up through the 0-6 case with just about any 140-200 gr boolit.
    16 grs 2400 even works well in the 22-250 and 220 swift with a 55 gr boolit
    the 28.5 grs of IMR-4895 with a filler is just about universal also.
    it's a gas volume/velocity/bbl node [and i am gonna say RPM] thing
    they both give about 1900 fps [except in the 22's] in a 20-24" bbl.

  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by ubetcha View Post
    The 7.7x58 is the Jap Arasaka.I just called it by it's
    metric name.Sorry
    Doh! Sorry, I should have caught that also but I'm working from my lap top w/o my reference manuals/material. Just went right over my head..........

    Larry Gibson

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    Doh! Sorry, I should have caught that also but I'm working from my lap top w/o my reference manuals/material. Just went right over my head..........

    Larry Gibson
    I figured you knew that and just entered a temporary brain lock like I do sometimes.
    I'm the King of my castle---anytime my wife's not around
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  13. #13
    Boolit Buddy
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    When I get around to loading for my Type 99, I will simply use cast bullet .303
    British data. The 7.7 was developed directly from the .303, and they have very similar internal, external dimentions, except for the rim and very similar balistics. The Type 99 also has a margin of safety over the No1MkIII so there are no problems there.

    Enjoy.

  14. #14
    In Remembrance



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    The Medford-style of rifling used on Arisaka rifles seems to shoot hard bullets better. One of mine also has tight & lose spots in the chromed bore even though made in 1939 according to its serial number. Apparently this is even more common in war-time made Arisakas. Plastic shot buffer used as a filler really helps improve the accuracy pf cast loads with my Jap rifles.

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy AviatorTroy's Avatar
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    Nice thread here, I just aquired a 7.7 and haven't shot it yet. I'm planning on trying the Lee .311 bullet designed for 7.62x39 and 16-18 gr of 2400.
    Airplanes and guns should always be made out of metal.

  16. #16
    Boolit Buddy mdevlin53's Avatar
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    My range has been planning a maintenence closure for some time and it just so happens that it is this week and i have friday off so with alll my brass full i will have to wait anothere week or two to get out and see how my old jap shoots.
    Why Johnny Ringo you look like someone just walked over your grave.

  17. #17
    Boolit Bub
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    I know that I'm comming in late to this thread but I had recently re-discovered my old Lyman Cast Bullet book. Loads for IMR4227 are as follows:

    155 Gr. 311466 28.0-30.0
    205 Gr. 311299 28.0-30.0
    217 Gr. 311284 28.0-30.0

    So I would guess that you could probably start with 28.0 Gr. of 4227 with that Lee Boolit.

  18. #18
    Boolit Man
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    aviator troy,

    lee's 7.62x39 tl design sized .311/.312 over 17 gr of 2400 is my go-to for all my .30 calibers, including the 7.7 jap. you'll like the load and the rifle.
    budman

    ignorance is fixable...

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    Budman46
    with the Lee bullet design for the 7.62x39 being used in your 7.7mm ,what is your OAL?.This design appears to be to short to touch the rifling when loaded as I like to do.Do you have any leading issues or is your alloy hard enough?I have started to use the 185gr Lee for the 303B.
    I'm the King of my castle---anytime my wife's not around
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    "A Government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have"
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  20. #20
    Boolit Man
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    Lee's .312, beagled, and sized to .314 works well. 17grns of 2400 works well at 50yds.
    Dan Dabson
    Dover, DE
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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check