Got My Trade Gun

[Boerrancher]

Picked up my Northwest trade gun today. The fella wanted $500 for it, and with a bit of trading it cost me two old military rifles, a 98k and a No 4 Mk 1. I got the gun with more than $100 worth of goodies. 2 shot bags one with a fancy brass measuring spout, and one that was homemade. There was lots of cards and wads, and quite a bit of patch material. I also got 100 or so RBs with it and a Dixie Gun Works RB mold.

I took it out and shot it this eve before dinner. I didn't load any shot just a dozen or so PRBs. I was only shooting about 30 yards but was knocking the heck out of my son's 4 inch tall spinning squirrel. I don't think I would have an issue taking a Missouri Whitetail with it at the distances I normally like to shoot, 20 feet and under.

I was a bit worried about cleaning it. The barrel is held on with several small pins, not wedges. I have never run into this before on a long gun, so I knew I had to clean it in the stock. I took it to the bath tub and sprayed a bunch of Balistol moose milk down the bore and on a patch and with the vent hole turned down run a wet patch down it. I pulled the patch out washed it with water, sprayed more moose milk in and pushed it out. I rinsed the patch again and then kept running the patch through after added a bit of water in the bore. I kept this up until the patch was coming out clean. Then I ran a couple paper towels down it, sprayed some solvent/water displacer down the bore, followed by a cloth patch. The patch came back clean, and I ran a paper towel down it to dry it up, and called it done after cleaning up the lock mechanism. For the next couple of days I will run a patch down it every day to make sure it is not trying to rust. Cross your fingers that I did it right.

Here are a few pics.

[Bodydoc447]

Very nice!! Love those old flinters. Good trade.

Doc

[451 Pete]

Great looking smooth bore Joe. I think you will be having some fun with that.

Pete

[Multigunner]

The Trade guns were the AK47 of the flintlock age. No user serviceable parts enclosed, so no attempt at even partial disassembly was recommended.
In other words if it quit working just use it as a club or take it to some trader who happened to own a screwdriver.

[Marvin S]

You can plug the vent with a tooth pick and pour some soapy water down it. Cant tell if it has a vent that is ment to be removed but the threaded tube/hose adapter works pretty well for that type. Good practice to check it later like you plan. Looks like you got a good deal on that one the serpent is even inlet.

[Dean D.]

I use a toothpick to plug the vent hole also, a trick taught to me by Waksupi. I also remove the lock before starting to clean. I use a shaving brush to oil up the barrel, lock and hardware when I am done cleaning.

BTW Joe, you can use that bandit mask to remove the excess oil if needed... LOL Great purchase!

[RBak]

Complete with "Sitting Fox and Serpent side plate"!
Looks like a NWTrade gun to me.
Good looking smoothie, Joe

If you were hitting a 4" Squirrel at 30 or so yds, the first time out, you are doing a lot better than I did on my first outing with my smoothie....took me at least a dozen plus shots to find paper, and another dozen or so to make black.

Now, after a ten or so years, it is my go-to gun for all my BP Hunting.
With a ball, I know where she is going to hit out to about 75yds or so, and the pattern with no.6's is limited to around 25yds, all of this is, of course, assuming I do my part.

Good luck with your new gun, it will keep the larder at a nice level, and I'm quite sure you'll enjoy your new friend.

Russ

[Boerrancher]

Complete with "Sitting Fox and Serpent side plate"!
Looks like a NWTrade gun to me.

I was wondering what kind of K-9 type critter that was on the lock plate. Thanks for telling me.

Also thanks for all of the compliments fellas on the gun. I always wanted a smoothy and was thinking of a French Fusil but couldn't pass up a chance to own a piece of American History even if it is a more modern piece of history. I don't know how many of those guns Curly made, but it can't be more than a few thousand, and that has got to be worth something. I figure if I take care of it, it will last me the rest of my life.

I want to try it out on a squirrel with some number #5 shot, but I have got to figure out how properly load it with shot. I spent about 20 min on the phone with Dirt Farmer right after I picked up the gun, getting a few pointers on where to start. He filled my head so full of stuff that I am still convinced that I need a bigger head to hold it all, and have yet to fully process all that he told me. It sucks to not have the memory I use to have. Oh well I will figure it out, and be busting bushy tails soon enough.

Best wishes,

Joe

[waksupi]

I take out the lock, and stick half a round tooth pick in the vent. Pour in some water, let it set for a few minutes. Use a breech scraper, and then tip out the water. Repeat the water a couple times, then go to using a cloth patch in the barrel. Swab and rinse a few times, then wipe off the barrel fouling, clean the lock. No toothpicks? Don't worry about it, go ahead and let the water run into the lock mortice, it won't hurt every once in awhile. Just dry it well.
Dry the barrel with paper towel squares, and oil. Takes me about 15 minutes for the full cleaning job.
I'll have to ask Matt if he has a production number, of how many have been made. There have been a lot of different builders over the years, as most of it is cottage industry, as I do here.
By the way, DO NOT be removing the vents from flinters to clean them. I may remove one in ten years, and put in a new one, or replace one that is shot out. Aside from that, leave them alone.

[Multigunner]

Plains Indians prefered a wallowed out vent hole. Since they often reloaded on horseback at a full run they used the old Russian matchlock era trick of letting some of the powder from the main charge trickle out the oversized vent to fill the pan.

The Deadliest Warriors program ran tests on a Spanish matchlock with normal sized vent vs the Russian matchlock and found there was very little loss in velocity from the oversized vent hole.
Reloading time using the Russian method was much faster, and no priming flask was needed.
They rapped the butt on the ground to be sure the powder got into the covered pan.

I ran across a few Indian wars trophies at a local antique dealer many years ago. Most were cut down percussion muskets either smooth bored or with rifling worn away. About 20 ga from the look of the muzzles.
One still had remains of a feather and a tuft of hair (scalp?) hanging from a barrel band.
That specimen had a slew of very nicely done copper tack decorations.

[Boerrancher]

Thank you for the information Ric. I don't have to worry about removing the Vent liner on this one 'cause it doesn't have one. I will remember that on my other flinter though. I only have one question about only removing the vent liner to change it. How hard is it to get out after 10 or so years?

Best wishes,

Joe

[x101airborne]

Hey, I run a pedersoli trade gun for bushy's and I have a cubic TON of cork and fiber wads. I would happily trade you some out (for what I dont know yet). But definately have 10 times more than I need. Then I use just a cutout piece of cardboard for an overshot card. Has worked for me about 15 times so far. I am also using 7 1/2 shot currently measured with a home made measurer I made. It is a 454 casull case to measure powder, then a cut off 45-70 case on the other end to measure the shot. And that thing HAMMERS bushy's. Gearnasher was with me for my first. Mine shoots a lot tighter for a straight bore than I thought it would.

[waksupi]

Thank you for the information Ric. I don't have to worry about removing the Vent liner on this one 'cause it doesn't have one. I will remember that on my other flinter though. I only have one question about only removing the vent liner to change it. How hard is it to get out after 10 or so years?

Best wishes,

Joe

To me, a vent liner is a sacrificial part. Drill it, and use an easy out to remove. Sometimes they can be removed with a turn screw, if the guy who put the gun together remembered to put some kind of grease on the threads. At other times, you see the vent filed flush with the barrel, and have no other choice but to use the easy out.

[DIRT Farmer]

Joe if you think I con go info overload, set at 451 Pete's camp with the usual crew around and ask one simple question about long range muzzle loading. Generaly, the discussion will end before day break with the referance materials and charts. Be sure to take notes.

It looks like I will be heading towards your neighborhood on the afternoon of the 11th.

[Boerrancher]

I wish I lived closer to you fellas. I have been playing with black powder rifles and pistols since I was a kid, over 30 years worth of burning the holy black and I still feel like I know little more than when I started. Many of you guys seem to have much of this down to a science, while I am still blindly fumbling around in the dark.

On another note I did shoot some shot out of the old gun today. I loaded an ounce of No 5's on 50 grains of 2Fg. I was putting any where from 8 to 10 shot through a coke can at 30 steps, with each round. They were spread out enough to kill a squirrel or rabbit at that distance. I know I have killed squirrels with my 28 ga with a lot less shot in them than 8 or 10 pcs. I think I will try to keep my shots inside of 20 steps though just to be safe. I may increase it to 1 1/8 oz of shot and bump up the charge a bit more and see what happens.

Best wishes,

Joe

[Multigunner]

Something occurred to me.
When I mentioned the difficulty a native American would have had in getting his flintlock repaired, though I'm sure that most trading posts had expert gunsmiths or talented black smiths who could repair most anything in exchange for fresh meat or hides, I thought of a stop gap emergency method of keeping the gun in use if the lock failed.

Remember the "Indian Cigar"?
The trees these grew on were fairly common around here, though I haven't seen any lately.
The tree has bundles of a sort of long slim fruit or seed pod.
When these pods are dried they resemble a slim cigar, and kids used to like to fire these up and pretend to be smoking like a grown up.
I occured to me that these slender pods might make a useable substitute for the slow match used to ignite the priming of a matchlock musket.
They smoldered for awhile, never thought to time them.

Not something that would be handy on a long hunt, but if kept near a campfire it might allow the musket to be used in defence.
There are probably a few methods of bird hunting that would allow use as a improptu match lock.

The Matchlock was not favored as a hunting weapon, the chemical smell from a slow match spooking game.
The odor from the Indian Cigar would be less noticable, since no chemicals would be present.

PS
http://www.ehow.com/info_8489713_ind...row-trees.html

[405]

Good point. The cigar-lock ignition thing sounds goofy to some but I was reading just today about very similar methods used by primitive cultures around the world, as late as fairly recently. With the worldwide trade of 16-18th century BP arms, many had access to the basic guns, but had no parts or ability to repair them. They learned to set them off with just such innovations. They were re-inventing, by necessity, the hand-cannon type ignition.

[Boerrancher]

In mentioning the Indian and the flintlock, it was not until I started shooting them, that I finally recognized these odd shaped pieces of worked flint I would find when hunting arrowheads on historical period camp sites. They knapped their flints a bit differently than what we are use to seeing. The ones that I have found look more like the french flints of the 1700's instead of the typical English style flints that we use today. The noticeable difference is the Indian made flint, is shaped to nicely fit the jaws of the cock, instead of being blocky like they are made now. If I can find one in my mess of broken arrowheads I will post a photo of one later.

Best wishes,

Joe

[Hanshi]

Congratulations on that nice trade gun. The only smoothbore I own is a TVM EA fowler .62. This is what I killed my last deer with this past season. I've already taken the first step toward getting my own NSW trade gun. I'm getting a canoe gun kit and it will be my first build. These things are great flinters that do "everything.

[DIRT Farmer]

Joe, if you are getting that good of a pattern with #5s, you should be good to go for squrriels. There are not many all the way to the top of a ninty foot tree.

It just doesn't seem like that many years ago I was sitting at the camp fire trying to learn the dark arts of flint locking. There was always some old guy who would teach you all of the deepest secrets for all of the beer or wiskey he could drink. I finaly learned to watch the best shots and follow their lead.

I was given a shard flint while at Friendship and as it did not fit the lock, I trimmed it some. If I would have two of them I could have shot all week with just the two. The English flints at times don't suit me after a few shots, and I change them out. If they run good, 20 to fifty shots, but I have changed out three times in a 10 shot match. I can use suspect flints for practice but will not use them in a match.